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  • shabby - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    I hope they won't use those cheap ones with 5MB/sec read speeds.
  • nagi603 - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    That's still better than the random read rate of any optical media. But yes, it would be nice to actually have an install media capable of saturating USB 2.0 at least.
  • iwod - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    Well Random Speed doesn't matter if they are being read in Seq and Chunks. I hope M$ has properly design and choose the right media minimizing installation time.
  • jay401 - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    Those prices though... how about $50? How about tree fiddy?
  • cjmurph - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - link

    Whatchoo want tree fiddy for?
  • Mikemk - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    It'll probably load the whole thing into RAM if possible
  • crimson117 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Has to read it from the USB drive first...
  • WinterCharm - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    As someone who has made multiple install USB's of various operating systems, its faster than using an ODD to install.
  • ikjadoon - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    Yup; I was really surprised how much faster USB installs than ODD when I installed Windows 8.
  • salimbest83 - Thursday, July 23, 2015 - link

    yeah.. iirc installing win 8 from usb drive only take less than 20 min meanwhile using dvd take almost 40 min to complete
  • TelstarTOS - Friday, July 31, 2015 - link

    Yes, it takes around 15min with a usb2 key.
  • dgingeri - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I do know they started putting the entire installation package into a single file back in with Vista/2008, so that simplified the installation process. Being an admin in a server software test lab, I do a lot of installations, and I can say that Windows 2012r2 installs a LOT faster through USB than DVD, or even a network install. The test versions of Win10 server install far faster from USB than any version of Linux. So, yeah, they got the installer set up very well indeed.

    As for the complaints about price, I can understand the concern, but they do fall in line with the pricing of past versions of Windows, perhaps even a little less. Windows 7 Ultimate was $200 when it came out. The OEM versions will be cheaper, but also bound to the motherboard. If you upgrade the motherboard, you have to get a new license. Windows 8 and 8.1 both have issues with activation on new boards. The more expensive retail version doesn't have that restriction. In the long run. the retail comes out cheaper for many people, including me.
  • kmmatney - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I've upgrade many motherboards with an OEM license. You can generally do 2 major upgrades without an issue. After that, you have to phone activate. I've never NOT been able to activate an EOM version, but in worse cases I need to talk to someone on the phone.

    The annoying thing is I bought a retail version of Windows 8, but after 2 motherboard upgrades, and SSD upgrades, I now have to call in to activate that one as well. I thought buying retail would get rid of that (granted I bought in on opening day, when it was $39).
  • FalcomPSX - Monday, July 20, 2015 - link

    "If you upgrade the motherboard, you have to get a new license. "

    this isn't entirely true. You will have to do the phone activation though, and techincally speaking it's a legal gray area. OEM versions are bound to the hardware they come with. However it is perfectly legal to replace a broken part with a new one, or multiple parts with new ones and its technically the same computer. As there is no definition of what part you replace makes a computer a "NEW" computer vs a repaired computer, you could probably go so far as replacing every component except for the case. or even a SATA cable and it's technically still a repair, which is allowed. Microsoft can NOT tell what components you replaced when you have to reactivate, only that the hardware hash has changed enough that they will require verification beyond the automated process. You call, you'll get passed to a rep, who will ask you a couple simple questions(is this the only computer the OS is installed on? stuff like that) and then they'll give you the confirmation key to manually key in, future activations on that same setup will go through automated, but change hardware, and you gotta call in again. Pain in the butt, but it does work.
  • FalcomPSX - Monday, July 20, 2015 - link

    since windows Vista, installations are based on compressed WIM files. Even a low quality USB drive would still install pretty quick since it just has to load the rather large WIM file onto the harddrive, or cache into ram. From there its a pretty quick process. USB3.0 memory stick would be nice though! I imagine it will come on a 4GB usb2.0 drive at best though.
  • nightbringer57 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I've never had a good, fast USB drive (I don't need it). Even with the worst, cheap shit, it has always felt much faster to install windows from a USB drive than from a CD drive. The true problem of cheap drives is their write speed, which should not be a hinderance in this case.
  • Scabies - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Much like SSDs, even an el-cheapo will be miles ahead of most spinning drives.
  • Samus - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - link

    Even Microcenter sells Toshiba 4GB USB 2.0 flash drives for $3.99 each and they read at 15MB/sec.

    But with Microsofts buying power they should be able to source a decent contract with Sandisk or a quality OEM for 4GB USB 3.0 drives.
  • 3ogdy - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - link

    Woooow, pump your brakes there..SanDisk, a quality OEM? Oh, it's SanDisk OR a quality OEM. Sorry, that makes sense now. Last I checked SanDisk was shipping faulty products with flash that became read-only within warranty period and they wouldn't do shit about it, blaming the users for it. C_unt company.
  • Samus - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    Sandisk makes some of the highest rated, fastest USB flash drives in the world, which makes them a target for counterfeiting. Every single Sandisk product I've seen fail was a knock-off, including flash memory that exhibits the read only issue you mentioned.

    Don't blame a company for stolen "factory seconds" or products it isn't even making that you bought from a shady etailer or on eBay.

    http://goughlui.com/2014/12/16/quick-review-fake-s...

    http://www.ebay.com/gds/FAKE-SanDisk-Ultra-Secure-...
  • Thermalzeal - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    Yup, the read speed on even the basic USB 3.0's are quite impressive. Consider this the first step to the next Windows 10 product which will be a portable windows user files. Once they finish that SD card app install feature paves quite an interesting way into that less talked about feature of Windows 10.
  • Pessimism - Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - link

    Windows 8 (and 10) already have windows to go that can install to a USB stick. They foolishly choose to make this feature only usable on the expensive, enterprise, unobtanium SKU of windows.
  • kuttan - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - link

    Almost all flash drives can do faster install than from DVD. Even then Windows installation is done rarely so performance of the media is less important than the price of the Windows retail pack.
  • Ethos Evoss - Wednesday, July 29, 2015 - link

    that is irrelevant as win installs its own speed doesn't really matter .. if u have usb 2.0 flash drive or usb 3.0 flash drive the difference is 1 or 2 minutes.. ;)
  • ImSpartacus - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    What about longevity?

    Flash drives generally aren't the best long term storage, no?
  • Fujikoma - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    I'm hoping for a ROM chip as opposed to actual USB TLC memory.
  • canthearu - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    They won't be burning ROM masks for this.

    Likely be USB MLC or TLC flash drives with the write protect permanently locked on.

    Long term storage will be fine, 5 years or more, as flash retains data well when new. It is only when it is totally worn that there is potentially problems with data retention.
  • ImSpartacus - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I guess I'm a freak, but if I buy a retail copy of Windows, I want it for a lot longer than five years.

    I suppose if the iso is available, then it's not a huge deal.
  • djc208 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Supposedly Windows 10 will activate to your Microsoft Account, which means that you shouldn't need keys or original disks in the future to re-install it. Since most of us will be getting it via the Windows Store/download anyway I don't think an ISO is going to be a problem. In fact even if I had the USB drive and for some reason wanted to still be installing Windows 10 5 years from now, I'd want the most current ISO so I didn't have to spend all day installing patches that aren't in the original build.
    Besides, you could always just burn the USB drive to a disk or similar if you were really concerned about it.
  • Michael Bay - Monday, July 20, 2015 - link

    Will it, though?

    For example, what happens if I upgade to 10 from my 8.1 install, and next year my HDD dies?
    Do I have to repeat the whole process of installing 8.1 on a new HDD, updating it and then getting an invitation to upgrade it to 10? Will there even be an invitation if one-year grace period is over?

    Or do I install 10 from some kind of ISO with my 8.1 key? Do I have to find a 30-day evaluation key for 10 to enable this kind of install method, and then it reactivates properly when I log in with my account credentials?
  • FalcomPSX - Monday, July 20, 2015 - link

    no, once you have windows 10 installed, the OS gives you the ability to create reinstallation media for either DVD or USB. Not quite sure how the product key / activation will work, but microsoft's FAQ states that doing a clean install is possible and you don't have to reinstall 7, or 8.1 or anything to get back to 10 again. My plan is to upgrade from 8.1 to 10, create media and do a clean install immediately after. I don't like upgrades, they never work as well as a clean install.
  • FalcomPSX - Monday, July 20, 2015 - link

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10...
    source for my info. Scroll down to the question "Can I reinstall windows 10 after upgrading"
  • Michael Bay - Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - link

    Well, that`s something, thank you.
  • Mushkins - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Remember, the clock on flash memory degradation is when there's no power supplied to it. Plug that USB in once over the course of that five years, and you reset the clock. I dont think anyone has anything to worry about, especially considering this is just the initial retail distribution. Once you have the product key it will work via any medium of install (burn an ISO, use a different usb installation, network installation, upgrade media, etc).
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Simply plugging it in briefly doesn't reset the clock. The blocks need to actually be rewritten. Cheap USB flash drives won't automatically scrub on idle, as they can be unplugged at any moment.
  • lilmoe - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I really doubt you'd want the same copy of Windows 10 five years from now, just the license key. Just like how Windows 7 SP1 ISOs are better than upgrading manually, you'll want a newer copy with all fixes, newer features, and improvements a newer ISO, thus only needing the key.
  • Samus - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    That's a good point, I wonder if Microsoft will have a more intricate version of Windows Setup Update Check that might even refresh the drive with newer data. That would handle the longevity issue and acquire a newer copy for installation.
  • MadAd - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    agreed, up to date media is always easy to come by, its the key which is the important part, thats what I pay for, all else is just support materials.
  • Achaios - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I still have a 512MB USB flash disk from 2001. It works too.
  • lilmoe - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    It happens a lot, but not all flash is created equal.
  • SleepyFE - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    In theory longevity is better then optical drives. If you take care when handling a DVD it lasts long enough. With USB you don't need to take care so much and as long as it's read only it will last very long.
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Copy the contents to other media.
  • WinterCharm - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Longevity with flash is only an issue when the wear leveling has already reached critical levels.

    Second, wear leveling only occurs when writing to the drive. These should be clean 1-cycle-written flash drives, and should easily last 10+ years.

    SSD's start losing data within a month of being stored on a shelf AFTER they've exhausted their entire write cycles and all the flash cells are very worn out. Otherwise, they have great data retention.
  • Gigaplex - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    Any word on whether these USB drives are read-only or read-write?
  • JTWrenn - Thursday, July 16, 2015 - link

    Usb 2 or 3?
  • damianrobertjones - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    A lot of machines cannot boot from USB 3 so it'll probably be USB 2.
  • erple2 - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - link

    Fortunately, my USB 3 flash drive boots just fine on my ancient laptop with only USB 2.
  • pika2000 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Can Microsoft just allow people to download the flashable ISO for free? I mean seriously, you need to buy a serial to activate Windows anyway.
    I rather have an up-to-date version of Windows on demand ISO that I can download when I need it than an old Windows on USB that would need tons of patches when re-installed. That is assuming the USB is not lost.
  • Impulses - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    This, they already create ISOs and distribute ISOs for Insider, MSDNAA, etc... Why not just make it available to all, so much simpler.
  • Mushkins - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    They already do this for Windows 8, and if you buy Windows digitally you can download and burn the ISO.

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/creat...

    It says reset/refresh media, but it's actually just a standard Win 8/8.1 install image. I did this just yesterday to install on a new PC. You just type in your product key and it asks you what kind of media you want to create (usb/disk image/in place upgrade).
  • v1001 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    This is how I installed windows on my most recent gaming build with no optical drives. Downloaded that from Microsofts website and installed from USB. I didn't even buy it digitally either. I just used the CD key from my retail DVD disk.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    It's pretty rare that they reissue up-to-date ISOs. It traditionally only happens when something equivalent to a Service Pack is released, or a bug is found in the installer itself. The latest Windows 8.1 ISO on MSDN requires a ton of patches.
  • DanNeely - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Back in April I boot-strapped a PC from 7 to 8.0 to 8.1. After installing enough of the 8.0 patches for the 8.1 upgrade to run, I only had to install a handful of updates to have a fully patched system. IIRC outside of ancillary items like .net (which shouldn't've been needed since I had a fully patched version already) there was only one or two patch Tuesdays worth of stuff to install. Assuming they continue to do that for W10 the post-install patching hell should mostly be a thing of the past.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I think the in-place upgrade installer has the option of fetching updates before actually performing the upgrade, which is likely why you appeared to have downloaded them already. I don't think it was the ISO that had the updates. The most recent revision of the ISO was late 2014, which included the November 2014 update rollup.
  • MrSpadge - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Given that Win 10 shall be the last version for a long time, it would make sense to offer "point releases" maybe once or twice a year. They'd include all patches released until that point and would come in handy for new installations.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Windows 8.1 already did that to some extent, there were a few ISO updates last year.
  • nightbringer57 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    They already allow people to create any media for any windows 8 version for free.
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/creat...
  • Refuge - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    ISO's are and will continue to be available, just because they changed from a CD to a flash drive doesn't mean that is going change.
  • watzupken - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I think this makes sense since the popularity of systems without an optical drive is increasing. Even with a slower flash drive, its still quite a lot faster than a spinning media.
  • Marburg U - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I'm still waiting for ISOs available on their site (not just for MSDNAA lucky guys).

    Also "keys" made ONLY of numbers.

    And i wonder at MS for still not having an average Joe piece of software for installing image files on a newly reformatted computer.

    This 3 things would have been the minimum requirement for a decent setup service 10 years ago.
  • MrSpadge - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    The "Windows 7 USB DVD download tool" is free, easy to use and also works with Win 8 and USB drives. You need to prepare the boot medium prior to formatting, though.
  • creed3020 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I use this tool so often it isn't funny. I've shared it with countless others as well and they love it. Such a simple but useful application.
  • ZeDestructor - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    It's crap compared to Rufus if you already have the iso lying around somewhere.
  • DanNeely - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Pure numeric keys would have to be significantly longer to remain equally strong. A single case alpha-numeric key has 36 choices/character. Assuming none of it's used for checksums/etc, a 25 char code has 36^25 = 8 * 10^38 bits of entropy in it. Matching that in a pure numeric key would require ~39 digits (presumably rounded to 40 in the actual key). That's 60% more typing and 60% more chances to mis-type it or the voice activation system to mis-hear what you're speaking into your phone. I fail to se an upside.
  • Morg72 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I'm wondering if a big factor for this move is due to size. An average DVD is 4.7gb capacity and while Bluray is 25gb+, the drives are not exactly common. So USB is logical because, as the article says, pretty much everything has a USB port. They get capacity, portability and an extremely common media.
  • Zap - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    DVD-DL has 8.5GB capacity.

    I welcome our new USB overlords. I had already made my own USB installers. Even using 4GB drives that I got for free (with purchase) with unknown performance specifications, installation is much faster than with DVD.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    FAT32 has 4GB file size limits, and the bulk of the ISO is the very large WIM file.
  • sheh - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    DVDs use UDF, not FAT.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    USB drives don't.
  • phoenix_rizzen - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - link

    USB drives can though.

    They can also be formatted with NTFS. Or even exFAT. You aren't limited to FAT32.

    All of the above are supported out-of-the-box on Windows.
  • Gigaplex - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    They can't if you want it to work with UEFI. USB drives need to be FAT32 to be compatible with the UEFI spec as far as I'm aware.
  • FalcomPSX - Monday, July 20, 2015 - link

    this is true. This is also a baffling requirement.
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    The most recent build of Win10 (10240) is 3.83GB. So it would easily fit on a 4.7GB DVD. In fact it should fit on 4GB flash drives as well (so long as they're actually 4GiB).
  • yannigr2 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    "This item will be released on August 30, 2015."

    They changed it?
  • Nexing - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Yeah, 29 is really 39 lucky day, surprise! Ssssh
  • edzieba - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I wonder if they'll use some sort of key embedding? If every install device can potentially be unique (unlike with CDs/DVDs), you can embed the product key on each USB key so it does not need to be entered manually during installation. Could be a bit iffy if you're used to using the same install media for multiple installs though.
  • fokka - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    thank god, those 4gb drives cant be that expensive. and read speed should be fine as well as long as MS isn't using complete garbage.
  • Shadowmaster625 - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Good. Now if only I could get redbox to rent me a movie on a stick. I skipped blu-ray entirely and have no intention of ever buyign another optical drive.
  • piasabird - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I would like the option of just downloading just the license and a download program that can boot your computer and download windows 10 for an upgrade option. Just download the ISO in the background. I like this idea. I don't see why they cant just let people download it to an existing USB drive. Using a USB3 Drive should be an option. Another option should be ordering it on an SSD.
  • DanNeely - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    MS does sell a productkey + download online. IIRC they started doing so with 8.0.

    http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pd...
  • benedict - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    The best option would be that all OEM PCs that come with Windows preinstalled have an option to download and install Windows in BIOS. Why do we still need an external drive like a DVD or USB?
  • Michael Bay - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Just imagine the antitrust wailing if such was the case.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Apple has that feature already, it doesn't prevent using an alternate OS, and is a benefit to the user. Secure Boot on the other hand has much greater antitrust implications, especially now that Windows 10 machines don't need to provide a way to disable it anymore.
  • Michael Bay - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    Apple share of the market protects it from anitrust action, and Microsoft share encourages it.
    Remember recent browser bullshit in EU and extrapolate.
  • Gunbuster - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I wonder if it will be a UEFI formatted USB?
  • Agent Smith - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I doubt it as UEFI would need at least 35Gb space which would cost MS more in costs.
  • Ryan Smith - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    UEFI? I suspect you mean GPT?

    No. If I had to guess, it will be MBR, formatted FAT32. UEFI is designed to boot/install from FAT32 no matter the partition table type, and MBR also means it will be compatible with legacy BIOS systems that still need a boot sector.
  • WaltC - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    Yawn...
  • Wolfpup - Friday, July 17, 2015 - link

    I wonder if these are ROM rather than Flash? I hope they are, so they're more permanent...

    Otherwise I have no problem with the change, that I can think of.
  • benzosaurus - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    Now if booting off a USB drive could just stop being a Byzantine nightmare, particularly with Apple "EFI."
  • Michael Bay - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    On my last three PCs I would just put in the stick, turn computer on and mash F8...
  • Pessimism - Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - link

    Or F1. Or Esc. Or F12. Or Enter. Or nothing works because the system boots too quickly for you to mash the key at the proper time because your monitor hasn't changed modes fast enough to see the prompt. Or maybe the boot menu has been disabled in the BIOS. Now you need to determine the key to mash to get into the BIOS setup....
  • MadAd - Sunday, July 19, 2015 - link

    FINALLY!

    I have been wanting see movies, software even music sold on memory sticks for ages now, only the (obvious) price saving of a bulk disk was a barrier, now we see the first, well done Microsoft.
  • akula2 - Monday, July 27, 2015 - link

    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro for $199.99 isn't a premium? A good joke indeed.
  • TelstarTOS - Friday, July 31, 2015 - link

    I already put it on my 4GB old usb key. Need to wait to find out how to do a *clean install* upgrade (from w7).

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