I agree. Even if you don't run the full test suite, I'd love to see benchmarks from both out of the box and after a clean install. If all the big review sites would do this, maybe the manufacturers would get the hint when they see public benchmarks showing their system runs like crap with all the bloat-ware.
I too agree that Toshiba has a talent for loading their laptops with bloatware. Just in case you're looking Toshiba. This is not a compliment.
With the above said. I myself own a Toshiba. An inexpensive $399 model from newegg. This laptop as usual came with loads of crapware. However, I knew this going in, and what I could do about it. Since Toshiba is very good about providing drivers for most, if not all of their laptops. It was nearly a joy to wipe the HDD clean ( I actually bought a bigger HDD ), and retrograde from Vista HP, to WinXP Pro. Not one driver was missing. Although, some of the utilities such as the auto sense application that detects when an external mouse is plugged would not work. Big deal . . . manual touchpad disable is easy enough.
Now I am currently running Windows 7 Ultimate x64, and guess what. Not a single missing driver. Three distinct versions of Windows, and Toshiba has them all covered. For someone who knows how to use a system, truly. This is a serious major factor when dealing with a name brand. Here, I think they deserve a lot of credit.
So, perhaps it is not the speediest laptop, with all the latest gadgets a computer geek may/may not ever use. But at least Toshiba gave those of us who know how to deal with a bloated install an option. As it stands. For the money, it is every bit worth the cost, and more.
Longevity . . . well that remains to be seen. So far though, I am working on 2 years, and the only real issue I have is: Once in a while the fan port gets a bit of dust in it, and the laptop will lockup from heat. That is, about once every 3-4 months. A simple shutdown, followed by flipping it over, and blowing the fan port out with compressed air fixes the problem. Of course, before blowing it out, you will want to use something to keep the fan from spinning, so it doesn't burn out.This is less than ideal, but you get what you pay for, and this is something I am personally willing to deal with.
Of course, I treat my laptop with respect, and do not toss it around. In return, I expect that it will last every bit of 4-5 years.
No one likes the "bloatware"but doesn't it play a part in making the hardware (and software that you actually want, the OS at least) more affordable?
It's a hassle to get rid of, but if it means that the machine is cheaper, then can we really complain too much? It's not like Toshiba are the only people who do it. Every machine that I have bought has had a fair bit on.
by the way. there is no mention of the venting hole on the bottom? i know this is subjective, but i know a handful of people, including myself, would not consider any portable computer with vent on the bottom, you can easily cover the vent with your leg or some soft surface and overheat the system. this is, IMHO, a huge design flaw.
Sony's VAIO Z has manually switchable graphics only. Better than ALWAYS ON ALL THE TIME but it's not Optimus. There's been some work hacking together Optimus drivers for the VAIO laptops, but it's certainly not official.
The 11.6 Timeline X models use ULV processors (18w TDP) while the 13 inch models use standard 35w processors. The fastest 11.6 inch Timeline X uses the i5 430um which runs at 1.2 ghz and 1.73 with turbo boost. The 13 inch Timeline X use the standard 35w parts, the 35w i5 430m runs at 2.26 ghz and 2.53 with turbo boost (a difference of 46% to 88% in clock speed).
Now you don't always need the clock speed difference, I love my predecessor I have an 1810 (the predecessor of the current 11.6 inch timelines) which is based off an 1.2 ghz core 2 duo based processor. The form factor, battery life, price ($350 at time of purchase) were everything I wanted; and it is fast enough for school work, internet, travel, and amazingly WoW when you turn down the settings.
I'm sure we'd love to (Vivek would probably love a change of pace since he handles our ultraportables, etc.), but we can't review what we don't have and aren't offered, and Sony's very cagey about review hardware. :(
My wife just got that Vaio Z model and I really must say that the screen is drop dead gorgeous. There might be a better screen out there, but I've not seen it if there is one. It's also just a ridiculously fast machine and what I would get if I could afford it (work paid for her's). It's also worth noting that is has a resolution of 1600x900 or 1920x1080, not the 1366x768 of the Toshiba.
I have the Sony Z12 myself and I like it a lot. It's the best screen I've seen on a PC laptop so far.
That said the screen on the 13" and 15" MacBook Pro are better than the one on the Z. A bit more glossy but actually also sharper and clearer. You put a powerpoint presentation up on those and the clarity is great, the color "pops" - its phenonmenal. Even on plain old text slides.
On the Z my powerpoints look good, but not that extra good like those Macbooks.
I really appreciate it! You are giving us power users who own a desktop IPS screen a voice. With the demise of the AFFS screens from Lenovo we have almost nothing left :( I can't stand TN trash.
Having had first hand experience with many Toshiba R500 and R600's, I can say that those were the flimsiest computers I have ever seen. The screen, the chasis, the... well everything had massive amounts of flex. There were always imprints of the keyboard on the screen too that were near impossible to remove. And they keyboard also sucked.
Due to the lack of build quality in the R500 and R600 series, the company I work for lost all confidence in Toshiba and has since started using HP 8440p's and 2540p's. When I heard they had switched to HP, I was quite surprised because of their crappy consumer laptops, but those things were solid and surprisingly had good keyboards too.
On the software side, I have a friend who owns a Toshiba laptop and it too came loaded with all that crapware. Most of the stuff is even Toshiba branded crapware, so it's not like they get money for most of it...
That's the first thing i do when i get a laptop is reformat it with a Windows 7 CD, because every namebrand pc now od days just love to add lots of bloatware onto their systems
So, let me get this straight. The specs look great, but then again those facts are easily accessible and the resulting perfomance can almost be guessed. As you say in the last sentence of the introduction, would it hold up to physical inspection, that's what we read the article for. The article does not disappoint and shows beautifully how a product that looks good on paper can be ... a piece of crap. Bad, mushy keyboard, bad screen, flimsy build quality. So the conclusion is: A great notebook ... with a myriad of flaws? I don't think so. How about a terrible notebook with good perfomance at a good price! Why does the specification / performance outweigh the human-interface factors? Don't get me wrong. The article as a whole plainly spells out what's wrong with today's laptop market and that's great. I love it. Keep doing it, please. Cause what's wrong is, everyone is buying their equipment online and specs have become everything. Certain specs that is. That's why honest hands-on reports are so important. High brightness, high resolution displays, but contrast, black-level and everything else be damned, right? The marketing department hasn't copped on yet. Low weight? Sure, easy to market. Mushy, pancake like consistency of the laptop? How do you quantify that? Ah sure, it must not be important then. Keyboards? Don't get me started.
At $799 or $829 (whatever the R705 goes for), those flaws are excusable given the performance, battery life, long list of features, the overall aesthetic, magnesium casing, and superlight travel weight. Every $800 notebook has a crap screen. Bar none. Many of them have mediocre keyboards, and most have some questionable bits of plastic brightwork. At $799, I'd gladly excuse those flaws and get one. It's a budget ultraportable, and it might have a few rough edges. Most of them you can get used to, especially since everything else in the same market sector has a similar set of flaws, sometimes even more critical ones.
However, at $1599, well within range of VAIO Z pricing, these flaws are almost inexcusable. Nobody want's a $1600 computer with keyboard flex, a not so great screen, etc. It's just bad. The VAIO Z costs maybe 10% more, has a far better GPU, nearly as powerful CPU, weighs the same, has a screen that's maybe a thousand times better, a better keyboard, better styling and better build quality. It's like the holy grail of thin and lights. So once you get in that pricing ball park, you damn well better have a really impressive computer, and what's impressive at $799 most certainly will not fly at $1599.
OK, point taken. The machine I'm actually angry about is my own, a Thinkpad T410s. A premium machine with a good keyboard and solid build-quality, but an abysmal screen. Black-level 2.9 cd/m2, contrast 95:1 according to notebookcheck.net, and it shows. Also my boss has a Sony Z series and it seems flimsy to me, compared to the heavier Thinkpad.
I've had the Acer 3820TG 13.3" since this spring and I love it for the obvious benefits: 1.7 kg weight, 8 hour battery life (spec), Core i5-450, 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM, Inte/ATI 5650 1 GB auto-switchable graphics (battery vs external power)
The screen is horrible compared to the IPSes I'm used to on my home and work desktops. But this is just an increadible package at the price it sells for, just over half of that Toshiba, which doesn't have the 3D graphics to compare.
Acer's little ultraportables are amazing--I kinda wish I'd waited for the 3820's, but I picked this laptop up for 500$ and it turns heads all the time about how small it is and the frequent real world 8+ hours on my battery (light browsing, IMs, etc.. only get about 5 under Ubuntu, 10+ under Win7 usually).
I'd like to see a good 3820 review though to see if I should try to justify the upgrade.
I find your battery life results questionable. I have the r700-1320 (same as reviewed except for a 320GB 7200RPM HDD and an i5-520) While I haven't done any idle benchmarks, battery life with even light web surfing (and a fresh Win7 install) is closer to 4 hours (sometimes less) than 5.5. To claim that the laptop will get 5.5 to 6 hours is misleading; I've never seen battery life that long on the r700, and posters on notebookerview seem to back me up.
One other thing worth mentioning is that the stock bloatware-infested install of Windows locks up frequently; this is actually what forced me to do a clean install. After doing a clean install, the situation is much improved in that regard, although I've noticed some other irregularities.
We test with battery optimized settings on all laptops, with no Firewall/AV software, and we disable the other utilities. LCD is calibrated for ~100nits (as close as possible), we run the Power Saver profile, HDD is set to go to sleep after 1 minute of idle, system never powers off or sleeps, no display dimming or powering off, WiFi set to maximum power savings, min CPU 0/max CPU 50, hybrid sleep and USB sleep enabled. I think that covers everything.
In my experience, the "Balanced" power profile can cut off anywhere from 10 to 20% of the battery life, depending on the laptop and manufacturer.
Note that a clean install of Windows may not always get you the "optimal" results -- there are frequently power saving features or utilities that you need to install. As an example, Toshiba has a DVD power off utility that we used. Also, the Internet tests are highly variable if you're not using the same pages as we are, but given we got four hours of x264 playback I'd say that's a good minimum baseline.
Thanks for your reply. I think I've got similar settings to what you guys test with (including the toshiba DVD power tool), except for the 50% CPU limit and the lack any AV software. I wouldn't be surprised if MSE were knocking off a chunk of battery life, but I'm not willing to sacrifice that protection for some extra battery life :)
Recently, I had some time to kill and checked out Best Buy... man, every single notebook computer came with these horrible chick-let keyboards. Like from the old IBM PC Jr. Days! They sucked then and still mostly suck now.
Anandtech did a recent review of Thinkpad's X100e with perhaps the best chicklet keyboard on the market.
Well, for folks looking for a notebook with a NORMAL Keyboard and matte screen, Lenovo's standard ThinkPad line has them. And guess what else they do.... THEY DON'T LOAD UP THINKPADS with BLOAT-WARE! No Norton or Mcafee. Yes, a few of their own tools (nice ones too, love their wireless manager), thats it.
$900~1800 for the Toshiba? Blah.
At about $1500, the ThinkPad T410s is almost an Ultra-portable. Its 14", had an internal optical drive as well as optional WAN (at&t or Verizon or Clear), 3.9lbs... and it has a good keyboard and standard features that'll smoke the Toshiba. The screen isn't as bright, but I'll take a good matte screen any day over any glossy notebook. And if people check out eCoupons, they can usually save $150~300 if the timing is right ;) The latest ThinkPad keyboards (not the x100 or Edge) have spill-channels to protect the computer with perhaps the BEST layout and feel over ANY notebook. Only thing that sucks, the @#(*^$@ Control / Fn keys are backwards (Use BIOS option to flip).
But with my personal experience, I'd prefer a normal T410 over the S model. The S is barely over an inch thick vs. 1.5" on a non S-model. There the NON-S models are more sturdy, more ports, easier to work on and upgrade (2.5" drive vs 1.8")... and I'd rather pocket the $500 difference.
Tip: the $600 L (or older SL) models are decent, but may or may-not be matte. Keyboards are very good (feel wise) but not the great layouts like in the T/W series. L's are not as tough as Ts.
Not so simple. I have a T410s. Yes, it's better in most regards, however the screen is actually worse. Yes, hard to believe though it is, notebookcheck.net have measured it at only 95:1 contrast and the vertical viewing angles are virtually non-existent. Does the T410 have a decent screen?
yeap. the s is for slim, but you sacrifice the screen quality (not that they have good screen to begin with). bring back the IPS/AFFS flexview....while i appreciate my 400 nit outdoor IPS tablet, i can use a 15 inch with 1920*1200 resultion for my CAD work.
To me, the normal notebook (business) viewing angle is fairly straight on. Having others in a meeting having easier screen access is not my desire. We can't have everything... perhaps in 10 years, we can have screens that switch to narrow and wide view angles :)
Here is my ThinkPad screen experience: I'm typing this on my R61 (R500 replaced it - then the Ls replaced Rs). I'm fine with its low-res screen (1280x800), its brighter and more colorful than the T61.
The SL-500 looks better than the T61. The T410s looked okay to me. The T410 looked better than the SL510.
In general, Glossy screens - by their nature, have higher contrast over most matter screens for notebooks and even many desktop screens.
Theres a give and take going on here. Like many years ago, Anandtech would give a NEG to a mobo review for having the DIMM slots next to the PCIe slot... but if that problem wasn't there, it meant one less PCIe slot. I posted/email... you can't have it both ways ;) Then they started pointing this out ;)
So can Lenovo go with a much better LCD screen? Yes... if they are even being made. but at what costs?
We live in a time in which Notebooks costs $300 and up with a 15" screen. Unlike 10+ years ago when a ThinkPad went for $3000~6000!
ThinkPads would be DEAD without some sacrifice.
A: Glossy notebook for $600 vs: B: ThinkPad for $2000, both with same CPU/hardware stats.
Almost nobody will buy the ThinkPAD! Sell it for $600~1000, its marketable.
I paid $500 for my R61, new. Next to it in a store, an IDEA-PAD for $600. Mine came with the PDC @1.6Ghz / 1GB / 40GB HD / WinXP-Pro. The IdeaPAD had a C2D @ 2.2Ghz / 3GB / 100GB HD / Vista-Home / Camera.
I was going to spend $100 for XP Pro for the IdeaPAD... the matte screen and stronger body sold me on the ThinkPad. Even thou the IdeaPAD was a "better" deal in many ways.
My 3 year old ThinkPad has been upgraded to 2GB and runs Windows7 like a champ... it runs better than it ever did with XP.
Using a friends T410, I love it.
But I wouldn't recommend ANY 15" Thinkpad to anyone anymore... they are EXTRA-Widescreen. So the 14" is just as tall, screen wise and about 1.5 lbs lighter. Yep, the T410(s) screens are just as tall as my 3-year old's 15" screen. Hate these wide-wide screens.
Would it be possible for you guys to have a separate page on the site that gives a condensed breakdown of the major specs for the different laptops/cpus/ssd/etc that you are always comparing against. (tech-report had one a few years ago that I was always going back to for cpu reviews) It's been years since I've been able to figure out WTF Intel and AMD model numbers really mean since they change them so frequently. Also it would help when looking at the benchmark numbers for systems so we can focus on those with the specs/price we are most interested in.
Wikipedia also has a good list of CPUs and chipsets (and a ton of other stuff as well). I've considered trying to get some sort of setup where users can click on a result to get the full laptop specs; maybe we'll try to do that when we do Mobile Bench.
"The result is a notebook that is reportedly both lighter and stiffer than the previous Portege R500 and R600 notebooks"
Sorry to urinate in your soup but the R700 is considerably heavier (in ultra-portable terms) than both the R500 and R600 models. This isn't surprising since the R700 has a larger screen and less compromise on rigidity in order to save weight. I look after my laptops and sad to see the R600 is now unavailable and doesn't have a direct replacement. There are no sub 1KG (2.2lbs) models from Toshiba currently.
When this Toshiba was announced a lot of people claimed it would be a Sony Z killer and I knew it wouldnt. Toshiba actually has the ultraportable heritage and pedigree but TODAY toshiba is no longer about making top notch products.
Which is why they initiall fudged on the specs of the screen. I knew it would be a bottom-of-the-barrel 768p screen with low contrast - and so it is in the end.
Why Toshiba would bother shouting about this laptop I dont know. Its actually heavier than the Sony Z and not as good all round, depsite having a lower res screen. Worse yet there are a million Acer and Acer models that provide better value and durability.
A pointless product release. Toshiba should just quit this market and go home.
I can not stay for sure of the R700, but the R500 and R600 which have VERY similar designs have an all magnesium chassis. I would double check with Toshiba if in fact the R700 is using aluminum and not magnesium.
I found the info and comparisons with other laptop lcds very informative. Was wondering if the same lcd review treatment could be done on an hp envy 14 with the radiance display option, and the 8740w elitebook with the dreamcolor display option seen here
In the charts posted here the vaunted rgbled display from dell blew all others away in most tests, that display is put side by side in in alienware vs the elitebooks 10 bit ips panel and it trounces it in viewing angles.
Be interesting to see how it fares on these charts with the other monitors, so far there are other panels people are not seeing in the lineup, hopefully hp can send a review unit.
I'm using a cheaper version (13n) than this one you tested and the toshiba takes the place of a Thinkpad T61. I'm really delighted with the display! The color setup is excellent, the screen is really bright at maximum and the matte treatment is excellent. I don't know if the Thinkpad is really horrific, I don't know if lcd displays have made so much progress since the last 2 years, but it's for me a real pleasure to use this screen.
About the flex of the lid: the Thinkpad which is considered as really sturdy, especially for the lid has also a flex and I'm amazed Toshiba has been able to make a so sturdy device in 3lbs.
Another point: the 3G module included in the 13n version is the excellent ericsson f3607gw: 3G+, GSM, GPS and WoW (wake on wireless): with the tpm intel platform and a core i5-5xx, you get the best trusted platform available (antitheft technology).
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
43 Comments
Back to Article
bertomatic - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
While i agree I hate bloat/crap ware, and always do a "clean install".I'd like to see before and after results of all tests of this system, one "out-of-the-box" and one with a "clean install"
Thank you...
DigitalFreak - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I agree. Even if you don't run the full test suite, I'd love to see benchmarks from both out of the box and after a clean install. If all the big review sites would do this, maybe the manufacturers would get the hint when they see public benchmarks showing their system runs like crap with all the bloat-ware.yyrkoon - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I too agree that Toshiba has a talent for loading their laptops with bloatware. Just in case you're looking Toshiba. This is not a compliment.With the above said. I myself own a Toshiba. An inexpensive $399 model from newegg. This laptop as usual came with loads of crapware. However, I knew this going in, and what I could do about it. Since Toshiba is very good about providing drivers for most, if not all of their laptops. It was nearly a joy to wipe the HDD clean ( I actually bought a bigger HDD ), and retrograde from Vista HP, to WinXP Pro. Not one driver was missing. Although, some of the utilities such as the auto sense application that detects when an external mouse is plugged would not work. Big deal . . . manual touchpad disable is easy enough.
Now I am currently running Windows 7 Ultimate x64, and guess what. Not a single missing driver. Three distinct versions of Windows, and Toshiba has them all covered. For someone who knows how to use a system, truly. This is a serious major factor when dealing with a name brand. Here, I think they deserve a lot of credit.
So, perhaps it is not the speediest laptop, with all the latest gadgets a computer geek may/may not ever use. But at least Toshiba gave those of us who know how to deal with a bloated install an option. As it stands. For the money, it is every bit worth the cost, and more.
Longevity . . . well that remains to be seen. So far though, I am working on 2 years, and the only real issue I have is: Once in a while the fan port gets a bit of dust in it, and the laptop will lockup from heat. That is, about once every 3-4 months. A simple shutdown, followed by flipping it over, and blowing the fan port out with compressed air fixes the problem. Of course, before blowing it out, you will want to use something to keep the fan from spinning, so it doesn't burn out.This is less than ideal, but you get what you pay for, and this is something I am personally willing to deal with.
Of course, I treat my laptop with respect, and do not toss it around. In return, I expect that it will last every bit of 4-5 years.
Aloonatic - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
No one likes the "bloatware"but doesn't it play a part in making the hardware (and software that you actually want, the OS at least) more affordable?It's a hassle to get rid of, but if it means that the machine is cheaper, then can we really complain too much? It's not like Toshiba are the only people who do it. Every machine that I have bought has had a fair bit on.
mfenn - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Vivek, it seems like you've really found your voice with this article. Keep it up!seanleeforever - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
any possibility to get a Lenovo X201 and do a review?seanleeforever - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
by the way. there is no mention of the venting hole on the bottom? i know this is subjective, but i know a handful of people, including myself, would not consider any portable computer with vent on the bottom, you can easily cover the vent with your leg or some soft surface and overheat the system. this is, IMHO, a huge design flaw.Jarp Habib - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Sony's VAIO Z has manually switchable graphics only. Better than ALWAYS ON ALL THE TIME but it's not Optimus. There's been some work hacking together Optimus drivers for the VAIO laptops, but it's certainly not official.saqqy - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Those are comparable laptops with Core i3/i5 also starting around 3.2 lbs for an 11.6"Roland00 - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
The 11.6 Timeline X models use ULV processors (18w TDP) while the 13 inch models use standard 35w processors. The fastest 11.6 inch Timeline X uses the i5 430um which runs at 1.2 ghz and 1.73 with turbo boost. The 13 inch Timeline X use the standard 35w parts, the 35w i5 430m runs at 2.26 ghz and 2.53 with turbo boost (a difference of 46% to 88% in clock speed).Now you don't always need the clock speed difference, I love my predecessor I have an 1810 (the predecessor of the current 11.6 inch timelines) which is based off an 1.2 ghz core 2 duo based processor. The form factor, battery life, price ($350 at time of purchase) were everything I wanted; and it is fast enough for school work, internet, travel, and amazingly WoW when you turn down the settings.
OCedHrt - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Would like to see a proper review of the Sony Z. Even though I already have one, I feel this one deserves a proper review.Dustin Sklavos - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
I'm sure we'd love to (Vivek would probably love a change of pace since he handles our ultraportables, etc.), but we can't review what we don't have and aren't offered, and Sony's very cagey about review hardware. :(cheinonen - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
My wife just got that Vaio Z model and I really must say that the screen is drop dead gorgeous. There might be a better screen out there, but I've not seen it if there is one. It's also just a ridiculously fast machine and what I would get if I could afford it (work paid for her's). It's also worth noting that is has a resolution of 1600x900 or 1920x1080, not the 1366x768 of the Toshiba.Osamede - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
I have the Sony Z12 myself and I like it a lot. It's the best screen I've seen on a PC laptop so far.That said the screen on the 13" and 15" MacBook Pro are better than the one on the Z. A bit more glossy but actually also sharper and clearer. You put a powerpoint presentation up on those and the clarity is great, the color "pops" - its phenonmenal. Even on plain old text slides.
On the Z my powerpoints look good, but not that extra good like those Macbooks.
IvanAndreevich - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
I really appreciate it! You are giving us power users who own a desktop IPS screen a voice. With the demise of the AFFS screens from Lenovo we have almost nothing left :( I can't stand TN trash.MrSpadge - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
Agreed!Taurus229 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Nice! Make it a giveaway! Would love to have one!jrocks84 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Having had first hand experience with many Toshiba R500 and R600's, I can say that those were the flimsiest computers I have ever seen. The screen, the chasis, the... well everything had massive amounts of flex. There were always imprints of the keyboard on the screen too that were near impossible to remove. And they keyboard also sucked.Due to the lack of build quality in the R500 and R600 series, the company I work for lost all confidence in Toshiba and has since started using HP 8440p's and 2540p's. When I heard they had switched to HP, I was quite surprised because of their crappy consumer laptops, but those things were solid and surprisingly had good keyboards too.
On the software side, I have a friend who owns a Toshiba laptop and it too came loaded with all that crapware. Most of the stuff is even Toshiba branded crapware, so it's not like they get money for most of it...
SteelCity1981 - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
That's the first thing i do when i get a laptop is reformat it with a Windows 7 CD, because every namebrand pc now od days just love to add lots of bloatware onto their systemsMETALMORPHASIS - Tuesday, September 7, 2010 - link
Daughter has one from 4 or 5 years ago,runs great. Let your pocketbook be your guide as always!FH123 - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
So, let me get this straight. The specs look great, but then again those facts are easily accessible and the resulting perfomance can almost be guessed. As you say in the last sentence of the introduction, would it hold up to physical inspection, that's what we read the article for. The article does not disappoint and shows beautifully how a product that looks good on paper can be ... a piece of crap. Bad, mushy keyboard, bad screen, flimsy build quality. So the conclusion is: A great notebook ... with a myriad of flaws? I don't think so. How about a terrible notebook with good perfomance at a good price! Why does the specification / performance outweigh the human-interface factors? Don't get me wrong. The article as a whole plainly spells out what's wrong with today's laptop market and that's great. I love it. Keep doing it, please. Cause what's wrong is, everyone is buying their equipment online and specs have become everything. Certain specs that is. That's why honest hands-on reports are so important. High brightness, high resolution displays, but contrast, black-level and everything else be damned, right? The marketing department hasn't copped on yet. Low weight? Sure, easy to market. Mushy, pancake like consistency of the laptop? How do you quantify that? Ah sure, it must not be important then. Keyboards? Don't get me started.VivekGowri - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
At $799 or $829 (whatever the R705 goes for), those flaws are excusable given the performance, battery life, long list of features, the overall aesthetic, magnesium casing, and superlight travel weight. Every $800 notebook has a crap screen. Bar none. Many of them have mediocre keyboards, and most have some questionable bits of plastic brightwork. At $799, I'd gladly excuse those flaws and get one. It's a budget ultraportable, and it might have a few rough edges. Most of them you can get used to, especially since everything else in the same market sector has a similar set of flaws, sometimes even more critical ones.However, at $1599, well within range of VAIO Z pricing, these flaws are almost inexcusable. Nobody want's a $1600 computer with keyboard flex, a not so great screen, etc. It's just bad. The VAIO Z costs maybe 10% more, has a far better GPU, nearly as powerful CPU, weighs the same, has a screen that's maybe a thousand times better, a better keyboard, better styling and better build quality. It's like the holy grail of thin and lights. So once you get in that pricing ball park, you damn well better have a really impressive computer, and what's impressive at $799 most certainly will not fly at $1599.
FH123 - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
OK, point taken. The machine I'm actually angry about is my own, a Thinkpad T410s. A premium machine with a good keyboard and solid build-quality, but an abysmal screen. Black-level 2.9 cd/m2, contrast 95:1 according to notebookcheck.net, and it shows. Also my boss has a Sony Z series and it seems flimsy to me, compared to the heavier Thinkpad.Pjotr - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
I've had the Acer 3820TG 13.3" since this spring and I love it for the obvious benefits: 1.7 kg weight, 8 hour battery life (spec), Core i5-450, 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM, Inte/ATI 5650 1 GB auto-switchable graphics (battery vs external power)The screen is horrible compared to the IPSes I'm used to on my home and work desktops. But this is just an increadible package at the price it sells for, just over half of that Toshiba, which doesn't have the 3D graphics to compare.
Now where's the review? :-)
TejTrescent - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
As an owner of a 3810T 13.3", I have to agree.Acer's little ultraportables are amazing--I kinda wish I'd waited for the 3820's, but I picked this laptop up for 500$ and it turns heads all the time about how small it is and the frequent real world 8+ hours on my battery (light browsing, IMs, etc.. only get about 5 under Ubuntu, 10+ under Win7 usually).
I'd like to see a good 3820 review though to see if I should try to justify the upgrade.
hdjii - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
I know that screen replacement is not trivial, but can a good quality LCD screen be found which would fit this laptop?Is a DIY screen upgrade feasible for any of the otherwise excellent laptops you have reviewed?
Howard
Guspaz - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
I find your battery life results questionable. I have the r700-1320 (same as reviewed except for a 320GB 7200RPM HDD and an i5-520) While I haven't done any idle benchmarks, battery life with even light web surfing (and a fresh Win7 install) is closer to 4 hours (sometimes less) than 5.5. To claim that the laptop will get 5.5 to 6 hours is misleading; I've never seen battery life that long on the r700, and posters on notebookerview seem to back me up.One other thing worth mentioning is that the stock bloatware-infested install of Windows locks up frequently; this is actually what forced me to do a clean install. After doing a clean install, the situation is much improved in that regard, although I've noticed some other irregularities.
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
We test with battery optimized settings on all laptops, with no Firewall/AV software, and we disable the other utilities. LCD is calibrated for ~100nits (as close as possible), we run the Power Saver profile, HDD is set to go to sleep after 1 minute of idle, system never powers off or sleeps, no display dimming or powering off, WiFi set to maximum power savings, min CPU 0/max CPU 50, hybrid sleep and USB sleep enabled. I think that covers everything.In my experience, the "Balanced" power profile can cut off anywhere from 10 to 20% of the battery life, depending on the laptop and manufacturer.
Note that a clean install of Windows may not always get you the "optimal" results -- there are frequently power saving features or utilities that you need to install. As an example, Toshiba has a DVD power off utility that we used. Also, the Internet tests are highly variable if you're not using the same pages as we are, but given we got four hours of x264 playback I'd say that's a good minimum baseline.
Guspaz - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
Thanks for your reply. I think I've got similar settings to what you guys test with (including the toshiba DVD power tool), except for the 50% CPU limit and the lack any AV software. I wouldn't be surprised if MSE were knocking off a chunk of battery life, but I'm not willing to sacrifice that protection for some extra battery life :)Belard - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
Recently, I had some time to kill and checked out Best Buy... man, every single notebook computer came with these horrible chick-let keyboards. Like from the old IBM PC Jr. Days! They sucked then and still mostly suck now.Anandtech did a recent review of Thinkpad's X100e with perhaps the best chicklet keyboard on the market.
Well, for folks looking for a notebook with a NORMAL Keyboard and matte screen, Lenovo's standard ThinkPad line has them. And guess what else they do.... THEY DON'T LOAD UP THINKPADS with BLOAT-WARE! No Norton or Mcafee. Yes, a few of their own tools (nice ones too, love their wireless manager), thats it.
$900~1800 for the Toshiba? Blah.
At about $1500, the ThinkPad T410s is almost an Ultra-portable. Its 14", had an internal optical drive as well as optional WAN (at&t or Verizon or Clear), 3.9lbs... and it has a good keyboard and standard features that'll smoke the Toshiba. The screen isn't as bright, but I'll take a good matte screen any day over any glossy notebook. And if people check out eCoupons, they can usually save $150~300 if the timing is right ;) The latest ThinkPad keyboards (not the x100 or Edge) have spill-channels to protect the computer with perhaps the BEST layout and feel over ANY notebook. Only thing that sucks, the @#(*^$@ Control / Fn keys are backwards (Use BIOS option to flip).
But with my personal experience, I'd prefer a normal T410 over the S model. The S is barely over an inch thick vs. 1.5" on a non S-model. There the NON-S models are more sturdy, more ports, easier to work on and upgrade (2.5" drive vs 1.8")... and I'd rather pocket the $500 difference.
Tip: the $600 L (or older SL) models are decent, but may or may-not be matte. Keyboards are very good (feel wise) but not the great layouts like in the T/W series. L's are not as tough as Ts.
FH123 - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
Not so simple. I have a T410s. Yes, it's better in most regards, however the screen is actually worse. Yes, hard to believe though it is, notebookcheck.net have measured it at only 95:1 contrast and the vertical viewing angles are virtually non-existent. Does the T410 have a decent screen?seanleeforever - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
yeap. the s is for slim, but you sacrifice the screen quality (not that they have good screen to begin with).bring back the IPS/AFFS flexview....while i appreciate my 400 nit outdoor IPS tablet, i can use a 15 inch with 1920*1200 resultion for my CAD work.
Belard - Friday, September 10, 2010 - link
To me, the normal notebook (business) viewing angle is fairly straight on. Having others in a meeting having easier screen access is not my desire. We can't have everything... perhaps in 10 years, we can have screens that switch to narrow and wide view angles :)Here is my ThinkPad screen experience:
I'm typing this on my R61 (R500 replaced it - then the Ls replaced Rs).
I'm fine with its low-res screen (1280x800), its brighter and more colorful than the T61.
The SL-500 looks better than the T61.
The T410s looked okay to me.
The T410 looked better than the SL510.
In general, Glossy screens - by their nature, have higher contrast over most matter screens for notebooks and even many desktop screens.
Theres a give and take going on here. Like many years ago, Anandtech would give a NEG to a mobo review for having the DIMM slots next to the PCIe slot... but if that problem wasn't there, it meant one less PCIe slot. I posted/email... you can't have it both ways ;) Then they started pointing this out ;)
So can Lenovo go with a much better LCD screen? Yes... if they are even being made. but at what costs?
We live in a time in which Notebooks costs $300 and up with a 15" screen. Unlike 10+ years ago when a ThinkPad went for $3000~6000!
ThinkPads would be DEAD without some sacrifice.
A: Glossy notebook for $600 vs:
B: ThinkPad for $2000, both with same CPU/hardware stats.
Almost nobody will buy the ThinkPAD! Sell it for $600~1000, its marketable.
I paid $500 for my R61, new. Next to it in a store, an IDEA-PAD for $600.
Mine came with the PDC @1.6Ghz / 1GB / 40GB HD / WinXP-Pro.
The IdeaPAD had a C2D @ 2.2Ghz / 3GB / 100GB HD / Vista-Home / Camera.
I was going to spend $100 for XP Pro for the IdeaPAD... the matte screen and stronger body sold me on the ThinkPad. Even thou the IdeaPAD was a "better" deal in many ways.
My 3 year old ThinkPad has been upgraded to 2GB and runs Windows7 like a champ... it runs better than it ever did with XP.
Using a friends T410, I love it.
But I wouldn't recommend ANY 15" Thinkpad to anyone anymore... they are EXTRA-Widescreen. So the 14" is just as tall, screen wise and about 1.5 lbs lighter. Yep, the T410(s) screens are just as tall as my 3-year old's 15" screen. Hate these wide-wide screens.
I4U - Saturday, October 9, 2010 - link
Dell proposed, some years ago, a display option to narrow the view angle.QChronoD - Wednesday, September 8, 2010 - link
Would it be possible for you guys to have a separate page on the site that gives a condensed breakdown of the major specs for the different laptops/cpus/ssd/etc that you are always comparing against. (tech-report had one a few years ago that I was always going back to for cpu reviews) It's been years since I've been able to figure out WTF Intel and AMD model numbers really mean since they change them so frequently.Also it would help when looking at the benchmark numbers for systems so we can focus on those with the specs/price we are most interested in.
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
I use the following two web pages ALL the time:http://products.amd.com/en-ca/NotebookCPUResult.as...
http://ark.intel.com/Default.aspx
Wikipedia also has a good list of CPUs and chipsets (and a ton of other stuff as well). I've considered trying to get some sort of setup where users can click on a result to get the full laptop specs; maybe we'll try to do that when we do Mobile Bench.
BushLin - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
"The result is a notebook that is reportedly both lighter and stiffer than the previous Portege R500 and R600 notebooks"Sorry to urinate in your soup but the R700 is considerably heavier (in ultra-portable terms) than both the R500 and R600 models. This isn't surprising since the R700 has a larger screen and less compromise on rigidity in order to save weight. I look after my laptops and sad to see the R600 is now unavailable and doesn't have a direct replacement. There are no sub 1KG (2.2lbs) models from Toshiba currently.
Osamede - Thursday, September 9, 2010 - link
When this Toshiba was announced a lot of people claimed it would be a Sony Z killer and I knew it wouldnt. Toshiba actually has the ultraportable heritage and pedigree but TODAY toshiba is no longer about making top notch products.Which is why they initiall fudged on the specs of the screen. I knew it would be a bottom-of-the-barrel 768p screen with low contrast - and so it is in the end.
Why Toshiba would bother shouting about this laptop I dont know. Its actually heavier than the Sony Z and not as good all round, depsite having a lower res screen. Worse yet there are a million Acer and Acer models that provide better value and durability.
A pointless product release. Toshiba should just quit this market and go home.
gescom - Friday, September 10, 2010 - link
Sony Z12 = unbeatable machine!Period.
BrianTho2010 - Friday, September 10, 2010 - link
Vivek,I can not stay for sure of the R700, but the R500 and R600 which have VERY similar designs have an all magnesium chassis. I would double check with Toshiba if in fact the R700 is using aluminum and not magnesium.
-Brian
Jon_Irenicus - Friday, September 10, 2010 - link
I found the info and comparisons with other laptop lcds very informative. Was wondering if the same lcd review treatment could be done on an hp envy 14 with the radiance display option, and the 8740w elitebook with the dreamcolor display option seen herehttp://forum.notebookreview.com/notebook-news-revi...
In the charts posted here the vaunted rgbled display from dell blew all others away in most tests, that display is put side by side in in alienware vs the elitebooks 10 bit ips panel and it trounces it in viewing angles.
Be interesting to see how it fares on these charts with the other monitors, so far there are other panels people are not seeing in the lineup, hopefully hp can send a review unit.
TareX - Saturday, September 11, 2010 - link
So how does this compare to the 1215n? That's really what I care about.... which is better for games, and for flash HD in the browser?I4U - Saturday, October 9, 2010 - link
I'm using a cheaper version (13n) than this one you tested and the toshiba takes the place of a Thinkpad T61. I'm really delighted with the display! The color setup is excellent, the screen is really bright at maximum and the matte treatment is excellent.I don't know if the Thinkpad is really horrific, I don't know if lcd displays have made so much progress since the last 2 years, but it's for me a real pleasure to use this screen.
About the flex of the lid: the Thinkpad which is considered as really sturdy, especially for the lid has also a flex and I'm amazed Toshiba has been able to make a so sturdy device in 3lbs.
Another point: the 3G module included in the 13n version is the excellent ericsson f3607gw: 3G+, GSM, GPS and WoW (wake on wireless): with the tpm intel platform and a core i5-5xx, you get the best trusted platform available (antitheft technology).
Thank you for your wealthy analysis!