Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading this post. It reminds me in some ways, of my own sense of morals and ethics.
I've been a fan of yours from way back. I started a "PC repair and small office network" business in '97. Shortly after, I discovered your site, and it has been invaluable to me over the years for advise I can pass on to customers for their custom systems. In the early years, I spent a lot of time browsing around for reviews from every place I could find, but alway came back to AnandTech,I think, because I had a "sense" that it never sounded like a "biased" opinion. I really appreciate that (and so do my customers).
I have to admit that my business has not been doing well lately, and I've been pursuing other interests more in the last year or two. I also admit that inspite of my engineering degree, and my experience with PC from the beginning (original IBM PC 1982), I am beginning to lose my basic understanding of these machines. The stuff you guys get into, is sometime beyond the reach of the "average joe". As much as it is fun to try to figure out what all that "jargon" means, I prefer a simpler approach (KISS)for most things I do. You might want to do some articles for us "joe's" out there. You now have the clout (read "market reach") that just about anyone close to the business knows about you site, but sometimes it's a little to technical to make sense of.
Anyway best of luck on the future of your endeavor. It's good stuff.
Hi Anand,
The AX6BC Gold was editors choice in 1999. Based on your review I purchased and built one of the most incredibly stable and lasting machines I have ever owned. In fact It is still in use today 6 years....and still running like new. Anandtech is truly an oasis. The personal computer has become a utility like water?...or electricity? We can't live without this portal to the greater world. I remember the dark days before the web and before there was any such thing as Hardware review sites. "You were on your own in the jungle ready to gamble some cash on a Gateway or a Dell" Why becuase you had no choice. SO thanks Anand!! thank you for providing us with the information to make good choices and teaching us about the bleeding edge of Hardware for the PC enthusiast. It is indeed liberating...
P.S. Please revisit your socket 939 editors choice for the "MSI k8n Neo2 Platinum" the web is littered with people who have had nothing but trouble from this motherboard. It may be a HOT ROD but not a "Work Horse". You are our voice. Don't forget us...
Amen to that brother ... I've been reading your site for, oh about 8 years now & yours is one of the very few web-sites I still trust, keep up the good work Anand, & at the risk of repeating this for the 500th time, hopefully 8 years from now I'll still be around!
Well done Anand ! You have been doing for the last 8 years what Indian cricket team just could not think of doing with their recently ended series against Pakistan.
Wish you many more years of success.
---Bhuvnesh---
Anand, A very heartfelt message to your readers. Yes, it did suggest that you were not too happy about the attack by the inquirer. Who cares, right? By providing unbiased information to your readers for so long, you've helped made many know-it-nots into something of know-their-tech people. I can't describe how much I've gleaned about new and upcoming technologies and existing ones merely by browsing through the copious amounts of information available here. From India, thanks Anand.
Anand, Thanks for telling us your story. I am so glad i found this website years ago. In your journal you said it and i have been touched too. Thanks for telling us about your self.
AT'er
Akshay
Talk about inspiring! That was one blog entry long overdue! I have been coming to this site and reading your articles for longer than I can remember, but I don't think anything you've ever written has made me want to put up a post more than this!
Too often today, people are blinded by themselves. We unfortunately live in a "what have you done for me lately" society, and all to frequently don't stop to think about the people that we interact with on a daily basis. Although you may not actually speak with many or any of us, you do interact with us through your articles and postings and it is a wonderful thing to see that you take it so seriously.
It is good to know that when I come here looking for an opinion or information regarding a new product, service or idea, I will get an honest assessment from you and your staff. It is even better to know that I am getting this information from someone who shares the same values as I and that they were instilled in him much the same as they were in me when I was growing up. It leads me to believe that you are someone who truly understands your readers and there needs, and more importantly cares enough to give them that much and more!
I congratulate you on your 8 year anniversary, and hope that there are many more to come! Keep the quality information coming our way, and I can guarantee you that we will all keep coming back for it! Thank You!
You know what's coo is you follow what you preach. You said you dont like all the soap opera crap. You could have posted your comments regarding the current situation on the front of the page or in one of the links in bold and big in the news section or the middle. But you didnt. This came from your blog which is a small link in the bottom right with a oblivious name of "thoughts"
I didnt even know about the whole inq stuff i just happen to see that you had a blog and wanted to check it out and ran into this. If i hadnt notice i would never know what's going on or all this stuff was happening.
The point being. Its about the hardware reviews and it's always been. Before reading all this stuff, i was just doing what i normally would, go on AT and check out hardware reviews.
Your actions do speak louder than your worlds. It shows.
You must have done very well on your college entrance essay, cuz that was college application quality. I might use the same line of thought ;)
I think it would be sweet if we could have a visual tour of the Anandtech labs... I'd love to see where you guys work! (and propably sleep in on more thatn one occasion ;-))
oh, and one thing i meant to ask when i posted above - do the ads not make any money for AT unless clicked on? i always thought they were based on site traffic. if they make money for AT only when u click on them i need to start clickin!
i first started reading here in summer of 2002 when i decided to build my first system instead of buy from Dell (yes, i was stupid enough to consider it then). i searched the net for weeks trying to figure out if the rumors i heard that athlon xp's were better than P4s were true (lol), and when i finally hit anandtech it was a complete breath of fresh air - sure there was a lot of stuff i didnt understand being a complete noob, but anandtech made it easy to see past the tech details and get the big picture of what i should be looking for in a system.
since then ive integrated AT into my daily routine - get up, go to school, go to the comp lab, read AT and check email, go to study hall, read AT and check email, go home, read AT and check email, just before i go to bed, you guessed it, i read AT and check email - needless to say i spend a considerable amount of time here and have always found the reveiws to be exactly what i needed to know. as an added plus, as others have already said, i am now twice the geek i would have been otherwise, and i enjoy every minute of it.
who knows - if i hadnt found AT i might still be convinced that Athlons are unreliable and inferior to Celerons lol
and one more thing - like the others have posted - theres a definite sense of community and feeling apreciated here - although i dont post all that often knowing that if i need to post a sugestion it will be taken seriously is a big plus.
in sum - thx for all the great work you do and keep it up - i for one sure hope u dont throw in the towel ten years from now
1) That Inquirer guy should have gone to bed instead of ranting, because he was obviously to tired to think straight.
2) Adds are a necessity for web sites to survive, so at least I don't really mind them (as long as they're within normal limits; pop ups, fullscreen ads, movies -- I hate those) and sometimes even click a few just to make you guys a few cents. Think of it as my way of saying thank you ;-)
I regularly read only 3 sites. One of them is anandtech.com, than there's overclockers.com and last, but most certainly not least, our local slo-tech.com where I also post news, help out in forums and I even wrote one article :-)
From my limited experience I know writing even a single article is not easy, but doing so on regular basis must require a lot of very hard work and rock solid dedication, so you and your staff have my highest respect.
Of course you're not perfect (I can't help feeling some AMD bias, some glitches here and there), but hey, no one is.
First I'd like to tell Anand that I think that his site is top notch. It is usually the first one I boot up when getting online, and that's saying a lot.
I have to say that I did read the Inq rant today, and rather than getting a mad, I actually started laughing. It seems to me that the rants author took the time to read through and then tear apart the review of Intels new DC Cpus. He mentioned somthing about not seeing game benchmarks and such. The thing that I found funny is that before the DC review came out Anand asked what kinds of apps we wanted tested, and from what I read in the review some of those suggestions were added! Oh well I guess you can't really get mad at someone who does not have all the facts right??
First of all, I am *very* glad that we don’t see screensaver or smiley advert-rubbish you seem to get everywhere these days.
I think the testing methodology of the dual CPU articles was great. Especially as SMP is now being pushed on the main stream and no one has ever had to benchmark in this way before.
I am not sure how many people really are doing stuff which requires a lot of processing in the background so I decided to do a few very crude benchmarks using Half-Life 2 to make Scott happy ;) I wanted to find out if leaving what I would consider normal apps open at the same time as gaming had any effect. (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=22595...
I ran it with all the apps open now that I happened to have. Sometimes I would have more sometimes less but I didn’t want to open any more because actually, although I do occasionally have more open, I don’t always have everything open at once.
Anyway, here is a list of what I have open now which I would normally close before a game:
IE with 3 windows,
Firefox with 2 tabs
Outlook
Word
iTunes
I also have the following things which I always or nearly always have running:
Zonealarm
AVG free
Spybot with SDHelper (helps IE) and TeaTimer (helps windows)
Steam
Test setup:
HOC_HL2Bench v. 1.3
800 x 600
Max detail
Bi-liniear filtering
X4 AA
HardwareOC Coast
85hz refresh
All application windows maximised:
51.0 FPS
All minimised:
51.5 FPS
Only always running apps:
53.1 FPS
Only steam and HOC_HL2Bench running:
53.5 FPS, 52.7 FPS (run twice)
I decided to turn down the settings to make it more CPU dependant.
Test setup:
HOC_HL2Bench v. 1.3
800 x 600
Min detail
Bi-liniear filtering
No AA
HardwareOC Coast
85hz refresh
All application windows maximised:
58.2 FPS
All minimised:
58.6 FPS
Only always running apps:
72.6
Only steam and HOC_HL2Bench running:
73.0 FPS, 72.9 FPS (run twice)
I’m not sure if dual core would help this. Not really sure what to make of these results but it appears that if I am CPU limited (at low graphics detail) then closing all my apps makes a huge difference to performance! Maybe that is because of limited RAM available? I was watching the HDD and it didn’t seem to be swapping.
Anand, I am sure you can do a much better job of interpreting this but I thought it was interesting so I thought I would share it.
Full process list - let me know if I have any nasties ;)
A quick question if you know the answer off the top of your head, otherwise feel free to ignore it... you mentioned FireFox having replaced IE as the primary browser of AT readers, I'm curious as to Safari and Opera's prevalence amongst your readership?
My own browser of choice presently, and at least over the last few years has been Opera.
#41 gnumantsc: Google Adsense is a viable option, but Anand get as much as $20,000 from some advertisements. I am sure Google Adsense will not be able to recover that. Besides, when you consider the majority of the content on AnandTech - Google Adsense will display hardware related ads, which are cheaper (usually around $0.5 per click) the ads on other topics. I don't think AnandTech will be profitable that way.
This discussion brings back some memories of AnandTech when it started... I vaguely recall when you first started on GeoCities looking at the K6 processors.
It's interesting to reflect on how far things have come since then, at the time Tom Pabst was really the only person that was well known covering hardware on the internet.
I think I first started reading AT regularly shortly after you moved to the anandtech.com domain, you were heavily covering the overclockability of the early Mendocino core Celeron's at the time.... must have been around late 98'?
Much has changed since then of course, now your arguably the single most influential tech site on the internet all from the humble beginnings of a early teens early Geocities endeavors.
You've managed to thrive thus far through the usual upheavals of the various sites coming and waning in popularity. I wonder how many of the current reign of popular sites were created partially from the influence of AT?
I always found it rather humbling to contemplate how far you'd come by the time you were 18 or so, I was only recently entered college and working in your stereotypical small town computer store... you were casually commenting on discussions with Intel.
It's faintly amusing to think that my own early education and eventual career path was in some respect inspired by reading your articles through the years.
Always found it odd that I could be so influenced, at least in some respects by someone that was actually slightly younger then myself.
#42 Questar: Stop complaining. It's not like you can do any better. I am sure if you wrote these lengthy articles, people would find mistakes in your writing as well. Not very many articles in this world are 100% grammatically correct. Even if you did write an article that is 100% from an English standpoint, I am sure it will take you quite sometime and when you are running the world's most influential site, I don't really think it matters.
As long you understand what the people are trying to convey, I could care less how they have written it. And before you defend The Inquirer, maybe it's time for you to look at their sentence structure and writing. Oops, I almost forgot - they don't have any.
If you don't like AnandTech, just get the hell away. Idiot.
I just recently received an email from Kris responding to my request to update the RSS pricefeed. I just wanted to let you know Kris does a great job and the email was a big plus. I don't know if you guys have an employee recognition-type thing at AT but I'd like to throw that into the hat.
But on topic, I have to give you the biggest kudos ever. I am professional personal shopping consultant (seriously) and most of what I suggest is supported by the unbiased reviews that you and your editors provide. I remember when you were on geocities.
I really don't think that a simple thank you in a blog comment can be sufficient enough, but I hope it's a start. The work you've done is ABSOLUTELY phenominal (sp?) and always dead on. I can read inbetween the lines and see that your intent is sincerely not just to pass on information but to teach to help us become more understanding of the technology. I've never sensed any bit of ego in your articles which is what most people do when they feel they know more than others; instead its a more giving and (loving) parentlike attitude that says you are giving us the best information that you can give us and hope that we will take that information and live more satified lives/purchases with them. It's the same approach I use with my clients. It doesn't always pay the bills but the smiles (and repeat business) fuel my soul.
You are doing a fine job and from the point of view that you allows us to have, you seem to be a great human-being as well. So maybe I'm acting quite fanboyish but from time to time you need to hear sincere compliments. So hopefully this resonates (sp?) with the hearts of all of us ATers, but you are definately a bright shining light in the blog/review/news world that has not dimmed since it's inception and we appreciate ALL of the hard work you and your team does.
And BTW, I use to come down hard on Stephen Caston when he first jumped on board. I think he's been doing a WONDERFUL job and passed the test of dealing with us pompous ass photogs :)
I did not read the other comments, because if I did i would be spending way to much time here for my own good, there is just to much to learn from lol...
Anyway, Anand, I find it vey interesting that you started this when you were 14. I myself am 16 now, and was thinking of starting a site like this about a year ago, of coure then I found yours, and realized I could never compete :() lol But, knowing what you like doing, all I got to say is great job, and keep it up. Thank you for your well thought out responces to people comments and being involved, it makes this site such a better place...I cannot wait to get home from work to read it, dreaming of the ultimate rig all the way home, you add to that enjoyment.
I cannot believe that people out there can question your intergirty when your dedication, and self-honor is displayed on this site everyday...
"With regards to ATI, yes they have definitely burned a lot of bridges with their customers as well as the media with their misinformation. We can't just stop reviewing their hardware, but we can definitely change how we deal with products we get from them. It's going to take a lot of work before ATI regains my trust when it comes to believing their release dates for products."
And nVidia has NEVER fudged a release date? If I recall, avialability of the 6800U was just as scarce as the ATI X800 XT PE. So you singling out ATI?
Grrr, I'm afraid fanATIcs will always view Anand as an nVidia fanboi, no matter how good ATI gets. And fanATIcs will always wonder if Anand receives more "benefits" on the side from nVidia than from any other company.
I'd just like to say I've followed AT (and other hardware sites) since 1999 and having since built and tested an unnaturally high number of systems since then, I've come to regard AT as one of the best review sites out there.
Why haven't you used Google Adsense as your main source of advertising? I mean surely you would make good money from it, given your CPM just a few clicks and your number of visitors would make you a good amount per day. They even have Google Text ads something similar to what you already have on sponsered sites.
I to on my site make sure that I put those abnixious ads on my site (thesoftwarecorner.com) since well it is annoying but those Fastclick InVue ads do generate a good CPM rate.
I see the Linux and Mac project of yours has been pushed aside. I myself use Windows very rarely and use Fedora Core 3 on a daily basis. If you stop by my site you see I do write Linux articles.
I believe the official name was Anand's Hardware Tech Page...sheesh I can't believe people read a site called that ;) But for getting your requests into AT articles, that's how we work. Us listening to readers actually extends far beyond these articles, I have no problems relaying overall messages to manufacturers about their products, marketing, etc... that comes directly from readers. You guys have something to say to Intel, AMD, ATI, NVIDIA, etc...? Let me know, I'll relay the message :)
Jon B
1) I'm not a fan of the flash ads either, but they are pretty much the only thing large ad agencies use these days. I've suggested alternatives, but most agencies won't even talk to you unless you accept flash these days. Our graphs stopped being flash several months ago however, they are all PNGs right now :)
2) We do have readers from all over the world, it's just that most of our reseller advertisers happen to be north american. It's not that our advertising folks don't want european customers, we surely have the readers in that part of the world, but that's just not how things work out (yet).
3) Firefox is used by more than half of the AT readership, it has replaced IE as the number one browser amongst AnandTech readers.
And thanks to everyone else that has responded, your words don't go without appreciation, personally, on my part :)
Scott: If this article wasn't realistic to you, I think that means dual core isn't going to be your cup of tea, do you know what I mean?
It's like saying, "I'm not going to pay $3k for a 30" LCD! That's a ridiculous price, what a worthless review!"
Or, "I'm never going to RAID 4 10k SATA drives, that's over the top!"
So if you think, "I'm never going to stress my system with a DVD rip, a Photoshop load, and an Outlook instance, who does that?" then you aren't the target market for a dual CPU. Intel may try to convince you that you are, but if you've read these articles, you SHOULD know that you aren't.
Video, photo, CAD, and other 'workstation' tasks, on the other hand, would love dual core.
I'm with Turnip (#35). I knew a good amount of PC/Server stuff when I first started reading your site, but now I am at least twice the geek I used to be. It's great when you can baffle your boss with bullsh!t and still make perfect sense to a fellow tech.
I began reading AnandTech around six years ago, when I got a job and decided I wanted a PC as well as my Amiga.
I don't remember how I found AnandTech, however to this day it is the only site on which I will consistently read almost every single article.
AnandTech inspired me to build my first PC all those years ago, and is responsible for really sparking my excitement about hardware as well as software.
My fiancé laughs at the amount of time I have a graph or an exciting new picture of a circuit board on my screen. She tries to understand what on Earth it is I'm talking about as I enthuse about the latest piece of technology, or invent a metaphor for explaining how something works.
I love reading AnandTech, and one reason for that is that I feel everything Anand has said here comes across in every article.
Thanks for making me a bigger geek than I may otherwise have been, Anand. :)
Well, Anand, I believe that the readership of anandtech is proof that you have never been lying.
I have only been recently in the tech scene for 4 months (had to whip up a DIY PC), a relative newbie, and had alot of reading up to do but your articles never ceased to amaze me. It is interesting that at the age of 14, you could make such great reviews of products.
Thanks for makeing it clear for us how you run the site but here are some thoughts on what I think Anandtech are doing wrong:
1. What's up with the design? Flashing flash-based based ads give me a head-ache each time I load a page. You should have a Pokemon-flashing warning. Don't like the graphs either. Couldn't they be just as pretty with a more common graphics format (gif/png)?
2. I guess it's the fault of your ad-sellers but the ads from Newegg and ZipZoomfly aren't any interesting at all for me (living in EU). I guess this probably applies to most people outside of North America. From which parts of the world does Anandtech readers come from? I've blocked all ads given that I wouldn't click on them.
3. You use a lot of Firefox/Mozilla based benchmarks in your latest articles. Why? Has Firefox overtaken IE's marketshare or are Firefox usage more common amongst the Anandtech reader. Maybe you motivated this move in an article I missed, please point me to it if that's the case.
Much complaining but I do like Anandtech overall. It ranks just below Gamepc.com and Techreport for me ;-)
I too, like many others, used to refer to Toms as my #1 source (roughly 8 years ago, from what I recall it was actually much less unbiased and straight forward then) Now I start my day like this: The Inq, lots of rumors, funny, entertaining but cant take too seriously. Hardocp, a pretty straightforward review site, generally reviews are unbiased though with some exceptions, entertaining news, entertaining proprietors. Anandtech, generally the most unbiased (trusted) reviews, more news for the day. Xtremetech, compare the whole community's results (If Anand lied youd see it here :P). If you are not doing something like this regarding the reviews that you read, then from my own experience, Anandtech gives the most well rounded reviews. While I develop an opinion based upon the reviews of many within the community, I would say that Anandtech's reviews can be trusted. Furthermore, I feel that situations such as the Inqs accusations are good for the community as a whole as it leads to discussions such as this. For example, if Anandtech was even considering taking a bribe, as the inq suggested, a discussion such as the one currently taking place would surely jolt Anand into reverting back to an unbiased view (at least if the editors had any sense). Something which I believe has been maintained regardless. Finally, if you are a true enthusiast, which most who read sites such as Anandtech are, you would already know that dual core would not benefit things such as gaming and that the real benefits would be for a multitasking situation. So if you were really considering upgrading to dual core you would want to see multitasking results, which Anandtech has supplied. Double finally, if any of this doesnt make sense, then sorry, I hit up the bars tonight :)
I have to say, today something happened that made me feel not only like a reader here, but part of a community.
I've been going to this site for at least 7 years now (I actually have an old email in my archive to Anand when it was called "Anand's Tech Page" I believe).
When I was reading Part 2 of the multitasking article, I saw that one of my specific requests for benchmarking had been integrated. I was so proud and tickled, I poked my neighbor during a law school class tonight to show him how Anand had integrated my request for multitasking games with other programs in the background. Not surprisingly, he didn't care.
I've gone being a frequent reader who always respects the content of this site to feeling like I belong here: I try to post in the forums as often as I can, I'm building my new computer based almost solely on information and links from this site and its forums, I am familiar with the different styles of the authors and I love reading their different perspectives.
I know this just sounds like a lame fan-boy post, but I'm someone who really has benefited from being a part of this site and community and appreciates it.
Just wanted to say Thank you. I respect your articles and your methodology and I want to see this site last as long as I do.
The new news section is very far along, with all of my traveling and recent NDAs I haven't been able to test the beta yet but hopefully I'll be able to spend some time on it later this month.
As far as the advertising idea, yeah I've been thinking about something similar for a while now. We'll see what I can come up with :)
Scott Smith
It's kind of like this: when we reviewed NVIDIA's SLI, we tested it at high resolutions with AA and AF enabled at maximum detail settings. It was assumed that everyone knew that SLI would offer no benefit at lower resolutions. The same type of assumptions were made with the dual core review, which for the most part turned out to be true based on reader feedback.
As far as not knowing what apps are multithreaded, I tried to provide some guidance in the preview with this statement:
Generally speaking, the following types of applications are multi-threaded:
Video Encoding
3D Rendering
Photo/Video Editing
most types of "professional" workstation applications
However, the vast majority of other applications are single threaded (or offer no performance gain from dual core processors):
office suites
web browsers
email clients
media players
games, etc.
That was from Page 4 of the first review. I will try to make a table of all of our benchmarks and whether or not they are single/multi-threaded, most likely for the next dual core review I attempt.
gnumantsc
There are sites that do things for the free hardware (not as many anymore, that used to be very popular a few years back) but most bigger companies are more strict about samples now, so you have to be a certain size (whether real or perceived) before they'll work with you.
Scott Brodeur
Thanks, that's something I'm glad is actually conveyed through my articles, I am extremely passionate about this stuff. That's usually my number one requirement for a member of AT staff - that they'd be doing this kind of stuff if they weren't being paid to do so.
With regards to ATI, yes they have definitely burned a lot of bridges with their customers as well as the media with their misinformation. We can't just stop reviewing their hardware, but we can definitely change how we deal with products we get from them. It's going to take a lot of work before ATI regains my trust when it comes to believing their release dates for products.
CDK
The biggest reasons for not being able to reproduce benchmark results are as follows:
1) We often test without sound, so gaming tests (except Doom 3, which disables sound by default for timedemos) will usually be lower on your actual machine. We test without sound to limit the number of performance variables in our testbeds, we try to be as scientific as possible. But in our multitasking tests, sound is enabled as MP3 playback is a part of the test suite.
2) Our test beds are 100% fresh installs with nothing above and beyond drivers and benchmarks, that usually impacts performance a bit as well.
We try to do our best to test with retail BIOSes and at retail clocks; generally speaking, manufacturers know not to hand pick the samples they send us - because if we find out about it, it won't be pretty.
brownba
While I can't comment on the infinium labs lawsuit, I can say that Kyle Bennett has always been a straight shooter with me. Both him and Scott Wasson (Tech Report) I have no problems sitting down with and just chatting about the industry. They are about the only folks from the sites out there that I don't feel uncomfortable talking with.
"you come here to read about technology, not about some soap opera and crap that goes on behind the scenes"
immediately when i read that line i thought about hardocp and their never-ending battle with infinium labs (the phantom).... i quit reading hardocp after that.
kinda sucks... don't read hardocp or toms anymore, aceshardware used to be awesome, but their lead man, johan, is now here with anand....
so for me all that's left is anand, which is not a bad thing, but we need diversity.
(oh yeah, i do read the inqwell for the humor - love the 'everywhere girl')
Hi Anand,
I don't think you need to go on debunking every rant on the web. Your work and the trust of so many millions should give you enough confidence to ignore these.
However, I want to mention that across many hardware forums I have come across people who cannot replicate the success of hardware reviewers in acheiving certain performance results with identical hardware setup used by reviewers. This has somewhat dented the credibility of many hardware review sites. I guess there is a case for these sites to use retail products alongside the custom products to inform the people about the real 'real world performance'. I understand that it is difficult/impossible to get new/yet to be launched hardware off the shelf, but you can always update your articles at a later date using retail stuff.
And keep up the good work. AT is the no 1 site I trust for making HW purchase decisions.
Your reviews are by far the most comprehensive, informative, complete, etc. There's probably not enough superlatives to describe them, but it's even better that you're comitted to maintaining/improving their quality.
Obviously the guy from the Inq was ranting and he obviously ignored parts of part 1 and published before part 2 came up. He got a lot of publicity but that's it.
Your site always has had easy to read yet still technical articles and you and the other editors all personally have a passion for what you do which comes through in the articles. That does not make you unfairly biased. And you almost always do everything that's public on this site without any form of complaint or accusations and I appreciate that greatly.
AT's reviews are far and away the most interesting for me unless I'm looking for something very specific or obscure. With the 6, maybe 7 years I've been reading your site, and buying/recommending a lot of hardware based in part on what is published here, I like to think that I would have noticed if you guys weren't thorough enough or were biased without coming to those conclusions through rigorous testing.
Thanks for the last 6 years I have been reading your site... it has been a pleasure watching your site (and you) grow up! I have always supported your site and defended it for the quality of the approach reviews.
There are many that have shown bias in reviews over the last few years to manufacturers and have given site a bad rap.
I can't stand those that accuse your site of being "Pro-nVidia" or the such as it is clearly untrue! Can I see biases in your reporting... sure but I can not see any reason one can not give a fair and balanced (not like Fox News BS) views while maintaining a personal touch to reviews. The are few sites that approach reviews with the same obvious passion as you do. You and Scott (Bjorn3D) are clearly excited about the technology you handle... which admitedly can lead to personal biases about a product... but it is always clear that bias comes from the excitement and passion you carry into your work. It is the same mentality I take on when I buy the products you review... clearly always from my own bias.
Please keep up the hard work... I look forward to the years reviews!
PS I wish you and others would take a stand and not review any more Production samples of ATI and nVidia cards. ATI's product record was abysmal last year and you and many other were fooled into reviewing many products that clearly NEVER saw the light of day (6800Ultra EE, X700 XT, Mobility X800, X800 AIW... etc!).
It used to be the only site I trusted was Tom's Hardware Guide, and that quickly changed when I saw Anandtech. To this day, this is the only place I go to get quality and unbiased (p)reviews of hardware. Not to mention detailed explanations of hardware which teach me something new everyday. Keep up the good work for decades to come...we all appreciate it.
A lot of sites do hardware review not for the love of the readership, but more for getting the chance to keep the hardware. I mean those sites do have to offer some preferential treatment in order to get new stuff all the time.
I do software reviews for my site its a small one but nonetheless, if they give me a free copy or I test their trial version it isn't a difference to me. I offer my opinion and even offer suggestions on nice to have features. If they implement it great, but I never ask for credit for improving their software, nor do they ever say thanks.
I bet The Inq's article about hardware sites got tons of hits because whether they mentionned you indirectly or not, sometimes an article like that makes them a "quick buck".
I would love to see my articles published on a popular site just as this whether or not I make a dime off of it, but you are lucky Anand to have such high readership. I would love it if I had that opertunity. (If I ever get my Linux site up)
Oh and if you don't like the intelliTXT ads, just suggest to your readers that the site only works in FireFox that'll solve the problem :D
Anand, the problem was not that your tests aren´t real-world (even though some of them could be called
exotic), but rather that you focussed more on benchmarks that gain a great deal from DC than those
that don´t. The end result is what I described. I´m
looking forward to a complete review in a few weeks/months. I still don´t know which applications from your standard testing suites can benefit from DC and which can´t, e.g. is Winrar multithreaded? What about compiling? Power consumption of the 130W parts as opposed to the single 95W part you tested, and so on.
Keep up the good work, I hope we won´t have to wait for affordable DC Athlon 64 parts until 2006 as you seem to suggest, so that we´ll also see some competition in that market.
It is WONDERFUL to hear about the news submission service. That will be very cool indeed.
I'm so glad you agree with the IntelliText ads... maybe someday they can be done with. I suppose you could do like certain articles on the Internet suggest and sell out to the manufactures...? ;-D
Obviously they are an attempt to be like Google's AdSense technology, maybe you guys could develop something like that your advertising agency could use? Maybe ads could be listed on one of the side menus as being "relative". Just a thought. Keep up the good work!
As I mentioned in the review, I had little more than a weekend to get the article done. So that meant I had to cut some things out, primarily: PC WorldBench which takes around 7 hours to run.
My multitasking tests were created based on feedback from the AT readership, as I mentioned in the article. As far as single threaded benchmarks go, anyone who has followed our articles already knows that single threaded application performance doesn't improve when you move to dual core. Despite that fact, I still included Winstone and SYSMark, both mostly made of single threaded apps and in part 2 I addressed gaming performance as well.
The gaming tests that you refer to in your post were asked for by our readership, which is why I ran them (in addition to single task gaming benchmarks). I felt two single task gaming benchmarks were enough to show, as I mentioned, that gaming performance didn't change from single core to dual core. Remember that this is just a preview and thus can't be expected to have our full test suite in it, our full microprocessor review when the chip is released will be accompanied with a much more complete test suite - but you cannot ignore multi-tasking performance. It's like if we reviewed a SMP workstation and only tested single threaded performance, that's not what readers of that review are interested in.
I also don't believe it's correct to refer to only the old tests as being "real world." I think if you asked the readership, a large number of them would find that the multitasking tests would be more representative of real world usage models for them; maybe not with the same applications, but generally very similar.
As far as not testing Half Life 2, it's difficult to do because every new release of half life 2 breaks our custom-made benchmarks so we have to re-make them. The game count has been reduced simply because I'm retooling our benchmarks for use with some of the newer games that have been released, and retiring older ones.
You used to have a standard benchmark suite for CPU testing. That one was obviously still great for the launch of the 6xx series. Now that INTEL sends out dual-core preview samples in a PR strike, you start creating boatloads of "multitasking" benchmarks that range from realistic to silly, effectively creating a showcase for INTEL, designed to show the maximum effect dual-core CPUs can bring, but you do not present several of the (previously) standard tests that (probably? impossible to tell since you didn´t publish them) show no improvement at all from dual-core, all these tests that would show a faster single core as the better solution. It´s not hard to see what impression that creates. The overall picture becomes distorted, and if INTEL wanted to showcase their products (in the way manufacturers do), they
would do what you did.
In essence, usage patterns haven´t changed overnight from the 6xx launch to the DC preview. It´s not like we´ve all become freaks overnight that play games at 25fps just to have some 10 other tasks running in the background. Where did all the real-world tests go? What happened to the standard testing suite?
------
On another note, even in your standard testing suites, I´ve noticed that you´ve reduced the number of games tested to about 2, while presenting several pages of professional workstation applications that often cost thousands of dollars to own. You´re not even testing Half-Life 2 anymore, probably the most important game out there. Just how representative do you think is that choice for your readers? Think more about what is relevant to the majority of your readers.
All criticism aside, your site is still the best out there, which is the only reason why I took the
time to write this up.
This deterioration that you speak of has happened numerous times over the past 8 years. The one thing I noticed is that the sites that deteriorate, don't make it. There are tons of sites that used to be semi-popular 4 years ago that aren't even a blip on the radar today. The same will be true 4 years from now.
This community is very self regulating, if people don't trust you, you'll be gone before you know it. And the larger you get, the more eyes you have watching over you.
There's a lot I could tell you about what's happened over the past 8 years. I've got enough to write a novel on, and who knows, maybe that will be my going away present to everyone 10 years from now when I finally throw in the towel :)
I will say this: the absolute worst that happens today behind the scenes amongst hardware sites isn't nearly as bad as what things used to be like. The problem is that a lot of sites these days grow up with the wrong role models, or get involved in the community for the wrong reasons. I won't point fingers or name names, but I will say that I will always do my best to show you the clear and impartial path. I'd say the number of bad sites today is lower than in the past, if you can believe that. There's a lot of pretty bad stuff that goes on behind the scenes, but as someone who has watched this community grow - I'm not worried.
Believe me when I say that I do my best to keep manufacturers in check. If I get wind that they are trying something sketch with anyone else, I let them know that it's not acceptable by any means and I take it as high up as necessary.
As far as manufacturers openly bribing, honestly I haven't even been offered such a thing in about 7 years. Like I said in the blog, manufacturers quickly learned not to try that crap with us. It's always an interesting story to hear about so and so doing this for money, but often times a lot of it is just childish rumors. Remember high school? A lot of what you hear is just like rumors spreading in high school. Silly, no?
Creathir
I'm not a fan of the intellitext ads either, that's why I campaigned for the ability to turn them off. It's a tough balance to strike, we need ads to keep the site running and to grow the staff, but honestly they are distracting. If I could find a way to do away with them while still grow the company, I would do it in a heartbeat.
As far as news goes, the news staff isn't regulated the same way as the editors are. We let them have a little more fun like that ;) But don't worry, soon we will be introducing a slashdot-style news submission system that will make sure that you, the reader, get more of an input on what you'd like to see on AT :)
I have been visiting Anandtech on literally a daily, if not multi-daily basis for at least 6 years, if not 7 (kinda hard to remember back that far). I have always looked up to the staff of Anandtech as a sou-... no, the source for reliable information in regards to the computer industry. It always amazed me that someone could bring such tremendous information to so many people. (Think about it, Anandtech articles, for the most part, are easy to read from a perspective of having NO knowledge on a topic to quite a fascinating read for people with a more technical knowledge.) The articles always have captured my interest and kept me well informed about current trends and such in the industry.
With that in mind, I would have to say the only time I have ever felt the ads had gone "too far" would have to have been when they started putting the IntelliText ads on the site. I kinda feel like its an intrusion. I know you can turn it off, but I still think its in poor tastes. The only "bias" I have ever noticed would have to be the news guys and their obvious distaste of Microsoft. They are human though, and entitled to their opinion.
Anand, I love the site, I'm envious that I didn't come up with the idea first, and look forward to reading more to come.
I feel I have to defend Charlie here, expecially with carrying the guilt of submitting that article to slashdot :)
I've been following Charlie Demerjian's articles ever since he started writing for the Inquirer and have great respect for what he has to say. On many occasions he has talked about how hardware firms often attempt to bribe him into writing favourable reviews.
I feel his article (rant) was born of frustration at what I can only be described as a deteriorating situation in the world of hardware reviews with a only a *few* exceptions (AT included). He article seems to be firing in all directions and I don't believe AT was a specific target, despite some /. gossiper's interpretation.
Anand, I admire your restraint in your comments, but I would admire you more if you would confirm what I and many others believe, being that the *majority* of the countless hardware review sites are corrupt, dishonest or plain incompetent; especially the latter.
I purchase computer hardware for a living and I find AT an invaluable resource for information. However I would be a fool to rely on AT as my sole source. But when an increasing number of sites are turning out reviews which have more holes in them than a swiss cheese, I keeping asking myself, who can I trust? This is why I feel you should go on the offensive to differentiate yourself or risking having yourself associated with them.
Anand, Thanks for your candidness, I bought a California Graphics Photon 100 not 1111, based on your recommedations way back then. It was the biggest POS for K6III ,I'm still here. I remember the BBS would die every six (weeks ,months) and my post count would have to start again and again and Again...lol . I still trust this site more than any and it will always be my home for the latest and greatest.
One more thing: I appreciate everyone's show of support, but let's not turn this into a bash-fest of anyone else out there. That's not the reason why I posted this and it's definitely not what I'm about.
Thanks for the replies guys, they all mean a lot to me.
Rand
I saw your comments in the other thread and responded to them there, but I'd also like to add that I do want you all to keep us in check. We're no better than anyone else, we just work hard and try to do the best job possible, and we will screw up - when we do, point it out (nicely please :)) and we'll always do our best to make things right.
Our loyalty lies with the readers, not with who pays the bills and not with who sends us hardware. If it resided anywhere else, we'd be in a much different situation today.
That Inquirer guy is an ass and doesn't know about what he's talking about. First off, he talks about how "nobody multitasks like that". Well, he obviously hasn't spent any time as a web designer (even an amateur like me) or he would have. Second, that was Part I of the article- the guy didn't even wait for part II to bash.
Anyway, Anand, you know that most people who actually read your site don't feel that way. Demerjian obviously needed to rant (he is paid to after all) and found your site. He had to come up with something. Your actions do speak for you- your reviews are the most balanced out there (unlike the shit TomsHardware slaps on the web) and people really do trust you. After all, we wouldn't be posting here if we didn't. There are even a good amount of Slashdotters defending you.
AnandTech is the place I go for for the most balanced, fair, in-depth reports out there. Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to another eight years.
Hi Anand,
I must say that I am touched by this blog entry. And I don't care what everyone says, I have been coming to AnandTech for the past four years and AnandTech has never let me down. I know many people say that I should read more reviews on other sites to make an educated decision, but I only stick to AnandTech for my buying advice.
I agree. So what if AnandTech is a business. I think it's only rightful for you to make money out of something that you have worked hard on for the past eight years. Just because AnandTech is a business doesn't mean it is unethical. I personally hate it when people can't trust a review because an advertiser is advertising on the site. It's just stupid. After all, you have to make a living somehow so why not do it with something you love.
Once again, I am touched and inspired by your parents and you. It's truly amazing what you guys have accomplished in the past two decades or so. Oh and don't take crap out of from people who don't know any better (The Inquirer). The Inquirer is known to be a stupid site and since they are accusing of being bought out, I would say (when you look at it from another angle) that they are not 100% honest either. Looks at the advertisements they have on their site. Should we start accusing them of being biased to Sapphire, SiS and Newegg?
Like I said, you are the best at what you do. Don't worry about what others think. If you lie, your reviews will show your bias. But thus far, I have only seen honesty in your work. There were a couple articles that were mediocre, but then again you are a human and you are allowed to make some mistakes in your 8 year career.
Keep up the excellent work Anand and never get discouraged.
I said this elsewhere in responce to something you said, but it seems equally well suited to post here so:
"but with all of the conspiracy theories bubbling out there I'm sure someone would interpret it as an Intel/NVIDIA forced move :)"
Frankly I suspect that's bound to happen even if you do include them, any unusual or unexpected results or surprising gains that cause the NF4 Intel Edition to approach AMD where it normally wouldn't will be looked upon with suspicion by some.
I'd simply try to ignore it and continue on as you do, people will have to decide for themselves whether their willing to put their faith in your integrity.
Personally I long since decided you were reasonably knowledgeable and legitimately concerned with presenting the most accurate and realistic results you could for readers.
Ganted, there have been articles I found very questionable and others I simply felt poorly written but the evidence has always led me to feel those rare incidents are more likely due to a rushed article or incompetence (No offence intended, even the best of writers make mistakes) rather then outright deception or bias.
There are many sites out there and many more reviewers, given time people will come to their own conclusions on whom they feel they can/cannot put their faith in to present valid results.
People attack me all the time, but if AT readers start questioning things that they shouldn't have to I feel a need to step forward and explain them a bit about how things work.
But for the most part, I like to let my actions speak for themselves. I'm hoping that over the past 8 years, they have done just that.
Anand, and why do you think the readers asked you the question? They obviously read teh inq.net article and it seems you have so. Just admit that you were irritated by it and felt the need to respond :)!
Anand, maybe this post is in response to Charlie Demerjian's unspecific rant on the Inq the other day. If it is, I say it is unwarranted. Anyone who reads the reviews can tell that they are the most thorough and unbiased around, so keep up the good work.
It looks like you needed to get some stuff off your chest. Has their been a lot of bad blood going on between the journalists, readers and manufacturers?
Well, like you said, I don't want a soap opera so don't answer that question. Your reviews are top notch and that is all I care about.
What hardware to buy? Where to buy it? And when? is the only purpose I come to Anandtech for. Any other enjoyment coming out of the forums or comments sections is just bonus.
Keep up the good work and I look forward to another 8 years.
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72 Comments
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Max - Friday, June 3, 2005 - link
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading this post. It reminds me in some ways, of my own sense of morals and ethics.I've been a fan of yours from way back. I started a "PC repair and small office network" business in '97. Shortly after, I discovered your site, and it has been invaluable to me over the years for advise I can pass on to customers for their custom systems. In the early years, I spent a lot of time browsing around for reviews from every place I could find, but alway came back to AnandTech,I think, because I had a "sense" that it never sounded like a "biased" opinion. I really appreciate that (and so do my customers).
I have to admit that my business has not been doing well lately, and I've been pursuing other interests more in the last year or two. I also admit that inspite of my engineering degree, and my experience with PC from the beginning (original IBM PC 1982), I am beginning to lose my basic understanding of these machines. The stuff you guys get into, is sometime beyond the reach of the "average joe". As much as it is fun to try to figure out what all that "jargon" means, I prefer a simpler approach (KISS)for most things I do. You might want to do some articles for us "joe's" out there. You now have the clout (read "market reach") that just about anyone close to the business knows about you site, but sometimes it's a little to technical to make sense of.
Anyway best of luck on the future of your endeavor. It's good stuff.
ncelikgil - Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - link
Hi Anand,The AX6BC Gold was editors choice in 1999. Based on your review I purchased and built one of the most incredibly stable and lasting machines I have ever owned. In fact It is still in use today 6 years....and still running like new. Anandtech is truly an oasis. The personal computer has become a utility like water?...or electricity? We can't live without this portal to the greater world. I remember the dark days before the web and before there was any such thing as Hardware review sites. "You were on your own in the jungle ready to gamble some cash on a Gateway or a Dell" Why becuase you had no choice. SO thanks Anand!! thank you for providing us with the information to make good choices and teaching us about the bleeding edge of Hardware for the PC enthusiast. It is indeed liberating...
P.S. Please revisit your socket 939 editors choice for the "MSI k8n Neo2 Platinum" the web is littered with people who have had nothing but trouble from this motherboard. It may be a HOT ROD but not a "Work Horse". You are our voice. Don't forget us...
Captante - Sunday, April 24, 2005 - link
Amen to that brother ... I've been reading your site for, oh about 8 years now & yours is one of the very few web-sites I still trust, keep up the good work Anand, & at the risk of repeating this for the 500th time, hopefully 8 years from now I'll still be around!Bhuvnesh - Thursday, April 21, 2005 - link
Well done Anand ! You have been doing for the last 8 years what Indian cricket team just could not think of doing with their recently ended series against Pakistan.Wish you many more years of success.
---Bhuvnesh---
Aamir - Thursday, April 21, 2005 - link
Anand, A very heartfelt message to your readers. Yes, it did suggest that you were not too happy about the attack by the inquirer. Who cares, right? By providing unbiased information to your readers for so long, you've helped made many know-it-nots into something of know-their-tech people. I can't describe how much I've gleaned about new and upcoming technologies and existing ones merely by browsing through the copious amounts of information available here. From India, thanks Anand.-- Aamir --
Akshay - Thursday, April 21, 2005 - link
Anand, Thanks for telling us your story. I am so glad i found this website years ago. In your journal you said it and i have been touched too. Thanks for telling us about your self.AT'er
Akshay
Ionoxx - Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - link
I know quite a few people have said the same, but one more can't hurt.Many thanks to you and your team Anand. Keep up the good work.
Dybo70 - Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - link
Anand,Talk about inspiring! That was one blog entry long overdue! I have been coming to this site and reading your articles for longer than I can remember, but I don't think anything you've ever written has made me want to put up a post more than this!
Too often today, people are blinded by themselves. We unfortunately live in a "what have you done for me lately" society, and all to frequently don't stop to think about the people that we interact with on a daily basis. Although you may not actually speak with many or any of us, you do interact with us through your articles and postings and it is a wonderful thing to see that you take it so seriously.
It is good to know that when I come here looking for an opinion or information regarding a new product, service or idea, I will get an honest assessment from you and your staff. It is even better to know that I am getting this information from someone who shares the same values as I and that they were instilled in him much the same as they were in me when I was growing up. It leads me to believe that you are someone who truly understands your readers and there needs, and more importantly cares enough to give them that much and more!
I congratulate you on your 8 year anniversary, and hope that there are many more to come! Keep the quality information coming our way, and I can guarantee you that we will all keep coming back for it! Thank You!
Jake - Saturday, April 9, 2005 - link
You know what's coo is you follow what you preach. You said you dont like all the soap opera crap. You could have posted your comments regarding the current situation on the front of the page or in one of the links in bold and big in the news section or the middle. But you didnt. This came from your blog which is a small link in the bottom right with a oblivious name of "thoughts"I didnt even know about the whole inq stuff i just happen to see that you had a blog and wanted to check it out and ran into this. If i hadnt notice i would never know what's going on or all this stuff was happening.
The point being. Its about the hardware reviews and it's always been. Before reading all this stuff, i was just doing what i normally would, go on AT and check out hardware reviews.
Your actions do speak louder than your worlds. It shows.
You must have done very well on your college entrance essay, cuz that was college application quality. I might use the same line of thought ;)
Brandon - Friday, April 8, 2005 - link
Thanks Anand, that's why I've been a loyal reader for many YEARS. I appreciate all you do, and buy from Newegg by clicking on your link :)Heron Kusanagi - Friday, April 8, 2005 - link
Well, I will love a visit to your labs, but I live in Singapore...-_-|||Is it possible to show us where you test those stuff you have?
alfe - Friday, April 8, 2005 - link
i can read anandtech whether i'm chugging beer after hours or having my morning cuppa... how cool is that??? :)Doug - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I would love a tour of AnandTech labs and how you guys work. Can you please do that Anand? ;)Anonymous - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
(Questar)"Before you go ragging on journalists, there's(sic) a couple of things you could learn from them:Grammer(sic-infinity).
Peer Review.
Fact Checking. "
There.
ksherman - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I think it would be sweet if we could have a visual tour of the Anandtech labs... I'd love to see where you guys work! (and propably sleep in on more thatn one occasion ;-))jrussel316 - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
oh, and one thing i meant to ask when i posted above - do the ads not make any money for AT unless clicked on? i always thought they were based on site traffic. if they make money for AT only when u click on them i need to start clickin!jrussel316 - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
i first started reading here in summer of 2002 when i decided to build my first system instead of buy from Dell (yes, i was stupid enough to consider it then). i searched the net for weeks trying to figure out if the rumors i heard that athlon xp's were better than P4s were true (lol), and when i finally hit anandtech it was a complete breath of fresh air - sure there was a lot of stuff i didnt understand being a complete noob, but anandtech made it easy to see past the tech details and get the big picture of what i should be looking for in a system.since then ive integrated AT into my daily routine - get up, go to school, go to the comp lab, read AT and check email, go to study hall, read AT and check email, go home, read AT and check email, just before i go to bed, you guessed it, i read AT and check email - needless to say i spend a considerable amount of time here and have always found the reveiws to be exactly what i needed to know. as an added plus, as others have already said, i am now twice the geek i would have been otherwise, and i enjoy every minute of it.
who knows - if i hadnt found AT i might still be convinced that Athlons are unreliable and inferior to Celerons lol
and one more thing - like the others have posted - theres a definite sense of community and feeling apreciated here - although i dont post all that often knowing that if i need to post a sugestion it will be taken seriously is a big plus.
in sum - thx for all the great work you do and keep it up - i for one sure hope u dont throw in the towel ten years from now
AtaStrumf - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
And two more things:1) That Inquirer guy should have gone to bed instead of ranting, because he was obviously to tired to think straight.
2) Adds are a necessity for web sites to survive, so at least I don't really mind them (as long as they're within normal limits; pop ups, fullscreen ads, movies -- I hate those) and sometimes even click a few just to make you guys a few cents. Think of it as my way of saying thank you ;-)
AtaStrumf - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I regularly read only 3 sites. One of them is anandtech.com, than there's overclockers.com and last, but most certainly not least, our local slo-tech.com where I also post news, help out in forums and I even wrote one article :-)From my limited experience I know writing even a single article is not easy, but doing so on regular basis must require a lot of very hard work and rock solid dedication, so you and your staff have my highest respect.
Of course you're not perfect (I can't help feeling some AMD bias, some glitches here and there), but hey, no one is.
static1117 - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Hey all-First I'd like to tell Anand that I think that his site is top notch. It is usually the first one I boot up when getting online, and that's saying a lot.
I have to say that I did read the Inq rant today, and rather than getting a mad, I actually started laughing. It seems to me that the rants author took the time to read through and then tear apart the review of Intels new DC Cpus. He mentioned somthing about not seeing game benchmarks and such. The thing that I found funny is that before the DC review came out Anand asked what kinds of apps we wanted tested, and from what I read in the review some of those suggestions were added! Oh well I guess you can't really get mad at someone who does not have all the facts right??
Static
smn198 - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
First of all, I am *very* glad that we don’t see screensaver or smiley advert-rubbish you seem to get everywhere these days.I think the testing methodology of the dual CPU articles was great. Especially as SMP is now being pushed on the main stream and no one has ever had to benchmark in this way before.
I am not sure how many people really are doing stuff which requires a lot of processing in the background so I decided to do a few very crude benchmarks using Half-Life 2 to make Scott happy ;) I wanted to find out if leaving what I would consider normal apps open at the same time as gaming had any effect. (http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=22595...
I ran it with all the apps open now that I happened to have. Sometimes I would have more sometimes less but I didn’t want to open any more because actually, although I do occasionally have more open, I don’t always have everything open at once.
Anyway, here is a list of what I have open now which I would normally close before a game:
IE with 3 windows,
Firefox with 2 tabs
Outlook
Word
iTunes
I also have the following things which I always or nearly always have running:
Zonealarm
AVG free
Spybot with SDHelper (helps IE) and TeaTimer (helps windows)
Steam
Test setup:
HOC_HL2Bench v. 1.3
800 x 600
Max detail
Bi-liniear filtering
X4 AA
HardwareOC Coast
85hz refresh
All application windows maximised:
51.0 FPS
All minimised:
51.5 FPS
Only always running apps:
53.1 FPS
Only steam and HOC_HL2Bench running:
53.5 FPS, 52.7 FPS (run twice)
I decided to turn down the settings to make it more CPU dependant.
Test setup:
HOC_HL2Bench v. 1.3
800 x 600
Min detail
Bi-liniear filtering
No AA
HardwareOC Coast
85hz refresh
All application windows maximised:
58.2 FPS
All minimised:
58.6 FPS
Only always running apps:
72.6
Only steam and HOC_HL2Bench running:
73.0 FPS, 72.9 FPS (run twice)
I’m not sure if dual core would help this. Not really sure what to make of these results but it appears that if I am CPU limited (at low graphics detail) then closing all my apps makes a huge difference to performance! Maybe that is because of limited RAM available? I was watching the HDD and it didn’t seem to be swapping.
Anand, I am sure you can do a much better job of interpreting this but I thought it was interesting so I thought I would share it.
Full process list - let me know if I have any nasties ;)
PID: 0 ( 0) [System]
PID: 8 ( 0) System
PID: 168 ( 8) \SystemRoot\System32\smss.exe
PID: 196 ( 168) CSRSS.EXE
PID: 216 ( 168) \??\D:\WINNT\system32\winlogon.exe
PID: 244 ( 216) D:\WINNT\system32\services.exe
PID: 256 ( 216) D:\WINNT\system32\lsass.exe
PID: 392 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
PID: 472 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\svchost.exe
PID: 500 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\spoolsv.exe
PID: 544 ( 244) D:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgamsvr.exe
PID: 560 ( 244) D:\PROGRA~1\Grisoft\AVGFRE~1\avgupsvc.exe
PID: 588 ( 244) D:\Program Files\Cisco Systems\VPN Client\cvpnd.exe
PID: 620 ( 244) D:\WINNT\System32\svchost.exe
PID: 632 ( 244) D:\Program Files\Promise\FastTrak\FtrakSvc.exe
PID: 688 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\regsvc.exe
PID: 704 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\MSTask.exe
PID: 768 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\stisvc.exe
PID: 840 ( 244) D:\WINNT\System32\svchost.exe
PID: 884 ( 244) D:\WINNT\System32\WBEM\WinMgmt.exe
PID: 900 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\mspmspsv.exe
PID: 912 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\svchost.exe
PID: 928 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\inetsrv\inetinfo.exe
PID: 1024 ( 216) D:\WINNT\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
PID: 1056 (1052) D:\WINNT\Explorer.EXE
PID: 1060 (1056) D:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\WINWORD.EXE
PID: 1076 (1056) D:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
PID: 1108 (1056) D:\Program Files\ATI Multimedia\main\ATISched.EXE
PID: 1176 (1056) D:\WINNT\system32\ezSP_Px.exe
PID: 1304 (1900) D:\Program Files\HardwareOC BenchTools\HL2 Bench\hl2_bench.exe
PID: 1332 (1056) D:\WINNT\system32\AEIWLSTA.EXE
PID: 1412 (1864) d:\program files\valve\steam\steam.exe
PID: 1432 (1056) D:\Program Files\iTunes\iTunesHelper.exe
PID: 1484 ( 244) D:\Program Files\iPod\bin\iPodService.exe
PID: 1492 (1056) D:\Program Files\ATI Multimedia\main\ATIDtct.EXE
PID: 1668 (1056) D:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
PID: 1732 (1220) D:\Program Files\Grisoft\AVG Free\avgcc.exe
PID: 1740 ( 244) D:\WINNT\system32\ZoneLabs\vsmon.exe
PID: 1760 ( 240) D:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe
PID: 1824 (1056) D:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\SpybotSD.exe
PID: 1864 (1304) D:\WINNT\system32\cmd.exe
PID: 1868 (1824) D:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\TeaTimer.exe
PID: 1880 (1056) D:\Program Files\Zone Labs\ZoneAlarm\zlclient.exe
Rand - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
A quick question if you know the answer off the top of your head, otherwise feel free to ignore it... you mentioned FireFox having replaced IE as the primary browser of AT readers, I'm curious as to Safari and Opera's prevalence amongst your readership?My own browser of choice presently, and at least over the last few years has been Opera.
Doung - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
#41 gnumantsc: Google Adsense is a viable option, but Anand get as much as $20,000 from some advertisements. I am sure Google Adsense will not be able to recover that. Besides, when you consider the majority of the content on AnandTech - Google Adsense will display hardware related ads, which are cheaper (usually around $0.5 per click) the ads on other topics. I don't think AnandTech will be profitable that way.Rand - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
This discussion brings back some memories of AnandTech when it started... I vaguely recall when you first started on GeoCities looking at the K6 processors.It's interesting to reflect on how far things have come since then, at the time Tom Pabst was really the only person that was well known covering hardware on the internet.
I think I first started reading AT regularly shortly after you moved to the anandtech.com domain, you were heavily covering the overclockability of the early Mendocino core Celeron's at the time.... must have been around late 98'?
Much has changed since then of course, now your arguably the single most influential tech site on the internet all from the humble beginnings of a early teens early Geocities endeavors.
You've managed to thrive thus far through the usual upheavals of the various sites coming and waning in popularity. I wonder how many of the current reign of popular sites were created partially from the influence of AT?
I always found it rather humbling to contemplate how far you'd come by the time you were 18 or so, I was only recently entered college and working in your stereotypical small town computer store... you were casually commenting on discussions with Intel.
It's faintly amusing to think that my own early education and eventual career path was in some respect inspired by reading your articles through the years.
Always found it odd that I could be so influenced, at least in some respects by someone that was actually slightly younger then myself.
Doug - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
#42 Questar: Stop complaining. It's not like you can do any better. I am sure if you wrote these lengthy articles, people would find mistakes in your writing as well. Not very many articles in this world are 100% grammatically correct. Even if you did write an article that is 100% from an English standpoint, I am sure it will take you quite sometime and when you are running the world's most influential site, I don't really think it matters.As long you understand what the people are trying to convey, I could care less how they have written it. And before you defend The Inquirer, maybe it's time for you to look at their sentence structure and writing. Oops, I almost forgot - they don't have any.
If you don't like AnandTech, just get the hell away. Idiot.
WooDaddy - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Anand,I just recently received an email from Kris responding to my request to update the RSS pricefeed. I just wanted to let you know Kris does a great job and the email was a big plus. I don't know if you guys have an employee recognition-type thing at AT but I'd like to throw that into the hat.
But on topic, I have to give you the biggest kudos ever. I am professional personal shopping consultant (seriously) and most of what I suggest is supported by the unbiased reviews that you and your editors provide. I remember when you were on geocities.
I really don't think that a simple thank you in a blog comment can be sufficient enough, but I hope it's a start. The work you've done is ABSOLUTELY phenominal (sp?) and always dead on. I can read inbetween the lines and see that your intent is sincerely not just to pass on information but to teach to help us become more understanding of the technology. I've never sensed any bit of ego in your articles which is what most people do when they feel they know more than others; instead its a more giving and (loving) parentlike attitude that says you are giving us the best information that you can give us and hope that we will take that information and live more satified lives/purchases with them. It's the same approach I use with my clients. It doesn't always pay the bills but the smiles (and repeat business) fuel my soul.
You are doing a fine job and from the point of view that you allows us to have, you seem to be a great human-being as well. So maybe I'm acting quite fanboyish but from time to time you need to hear sincere compliments. So hopefully this resonates (sp?) with the hearts of all of us ATers, but you are definately a bright shining light in the blog/review/news world that has not dimmed since it's inception and we appreciate ALL of the hard work you and your team does.
And BTW, I use to come down hard on Stephen Caston when he first jumped on board. I think he's been doing a WONDERFUL job and passed the test of dealing with us pompous ass photogs :)
Son of a N00b - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I did not read the other comments, because if I did i would be spending way to much time here for my own good, there is just to much to learn from lol...Anyway, Anand, I find it vey interesting that you started this when you were 14. I myself am 16 now, and was thinking of starting a site like this about a year ago, of coure then I found yours, and realized I could never compete :() lol But, knowing what you like doing, all I got to say is great job, and keep it up. Thank you for your well thought out responces to people comments and being involved, it makes this site such a better place...I cannot wait to get home from work to read it, dreaming of the ultimate rig all the way home, you add to that enjoyment.
I cannot believe that people out there can question your intergirty when your dedication, and self-honor is displayed on this site everyday...
Anonymous - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
"With regards to ATI, yes they have definitely burned a lot of bridges with their customers as well as the media with their misinformation. We can't just stop reviewing their hardware, but we can definitely change how we deal with products we get from them. It's going to take a lot of work before ATI regains my trust when it comes to believing their release dates for products."And nVidia has NEVER fudged a release date? If I recall, avialability of the 6800U was just as scarce as the ATI X800 XT PE. So you singling out ATI?
Anonymous - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Grrr, I'm afraid fanATIcs will always view Anand as an nVidia fanboi, no matter how good ATI gets. And fanATIcs will always wonder if Anand receives more "benefits" on the side from nVidia than from any other company.That is all.
Anshul - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Hi Anand,I'd just like to say I've followed AT (and other hardware sites) since 1999 and having since built and tested an unnaturally high number of systems since then, I've come to regard AT as one of the best review sites out there.
I was quite shocked while following the Inquirer article today and the discussion around it. I've blogged about it, if you care to read:
http://yavin4.blogspot.com/2005/04/on-integrity-of...
All the best
Anshul
Questar - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Before you go ragging on journalists, there's a couple of things you could learn from them:Grammer.
Peer Review.
Fact Checking.
gnumantsc - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Anand,Why haven't you used Google Adsense as your main source of advertising? I mean surely you would make good money from it, given your CPM just a few clicks and your number of visitors would make you a good amount per day. They even have Google Text ads something similar to what you already have on sponsered sites.
I to on my site make sure that I put those abnixious ads on my site (thesoftwarecorner.com) since well it is annoying but those Fastclick InVue ads do generate a good CPM rate.
I see the Linux and Mac project of yours has been pushed aside. I myself use Windows very rarely and use Fedora Core 3 on a daily basis. If you stop by my site you see I do write Linux articles.
Take Care.
Turnip - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Hmmm...I'm English and use Opera. I'm guessing I may be in a minority ;)
Anonymous - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Hmmm, Anand, I think you "protest too much".Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
PhlargoI believe the official name was Anand's Hardware Tech Page...sheesh I can't believe people read a site called that ;) But for getting your requests into AT articles, that's how we work. Us listening to readers actually extends far beyond these articles, I have no problems relaying overall messages to manufacturers about their products, marketing, etc... that comes directly from readers. You guys have something to say to Intel, AMD, ATI, NVIDIA, etc...? Let me know, I'll relay the message :)
Jon B
1) I'm not a fan of the flash ads either, but they are pretty much the only thing large ad agencies use these days. I've suggested alternatives, but most agencies won't even talk to you unless you accept flash these days. Our graphs stopped being flash several months ago however, they are all PNGs right now :)
2) We do have readers from all over the world, it's just that most of our reseller advertisers happen to be north american. It's not that our advertising folks don't want european customers, we surely have the readers in that part of the world, but that's just not how things work out (yet).
3) Firefox is used by more than half of the AT readership, it has replaced IE as the number one browser amongst AnandTech readers.
And thanks to everyone else that has responded, your words don't go without appreciation, personally, on my part :)
Take care,
Anand
Michael2k - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Scott: If this article wasn't realistic to you, I think that means dual core isn't going to be your cup of tea, do you know what I mean?It's like saying, "I'm not going to pay $3k for a 30" LCD! That's a ridiculous price, what a worthless review!"
Or, "I'm never going to RAID 4 10k SATA drives, that's over the top!"
So if you think, "I'm never going to stress my system with a DVD rip, a Photoshop load, and an Outlook instance, who does that?" then you aren't the target market for a dual CPU. Intel may try to convince you that you are, but if you've read these articles, you SHOULD know that you aren't.
Video, photo, CAD, and other 'workstation' tasks, on the other hand, would love dual core.
Aquila76 - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I'm with Turnip (#35). I knew a good amount of PC/Server stuff when I first started reading your site, but now I am at least twice the geek I used to be. It's great when you can baffle your boss with bullsh!t and still make perfect sense to a fellow tech.Turnip - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I began reading AnandTech around six years ago, when I got a job and decided I wanted a PC as well as my Amiga.I don't remember how I found AnandTech, however to this day it is the only site on which I will consistently read almost every single article.
AnandTech inspired me to build my first PC all those years ago, and is responsible for really sparking my excitement about hardware as well as software.
My fiancé laughs at the amount of time I have a graph or an exciting new picture of a circuit board on my screen. She tries to understand what on Earth it is I'm talking about as I enthuse about the latest piece of technology, or invent a metaphor for explaining how something works.
I love reading AnandTech, and one reason for that is that I feel everything Anand has said here comes across in every article.
Thanks for making me a bigger geek than I may otherwise have been, Anand. :)
Heron Kusanagi - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Well, Anand, I believe that the readership of anandtech is proof that you have never been lying.I have only been recently in the tech scene for 4 months (had to whip up a DIY PC), a relative newbie, and had alot of reading up to do but your articles never ceased to amaze me. It is interesting that at the age of 14, you could make such great reviews of products.
Thumbs up, and keep on the good job. :)
Jon B - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
Thanks for makeing it clear for us how you run the site but here are some thoughts on what I think Anandtech are doing wrong:1. What's up with the design? Flashing flash-based based ads give me a head-ache each time I load a page. You should have a Pokemon-flashing warning. Don't like the graphs either. Couldn't they be just as pretty with a more common graphics format (gif/png)?
2. I guess it's the fault of your ad-sellers but the ads from Newegg and ZipZoomfly aren't any interesting at all for me (living in EU). I guess this probably applies to most people outside of North America. From which parts of the world does Anandtech readers come from? I've blocked all ads given that I wouldn't click on them.
3. You use a lot of Firefox/Mozilla based benchmarks in your latest articles. Why? Has Firefox overtaken IE's marketshare or are Firefox usage more common amongst the Anandtech reader. Maybe you motivated this move in an article I missed, please point me to it if that's the case.
Much complaining but I do like Anandtech overall. It ranks just below Gamepc.com and Techreport for me ;-)
Anonymous - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I commented earlier as #4I too, like many others, used to refer to Toms as my #1 source (roughly 8 years ago, from what I recall it was actually much less unbiased and straight forward then) Now I start my day like this: The Inq, lots of rumors, funny, entertaining but cant take too seriously. Hardocp, a pretty straightforward review site, generally reviews are unbiased though with some exceptions, entertaining news, entertaining proprietors. Anandtech, generally the most unbiased (trusted) reviews, more news for the day. Xtremetech, compare the whole community's results (If Anand lied youd see it here :P). If you are not doing something like this regarding the reviews that you read, then from my own experience, Anandtech gives the most well rounded reviews. While I develop an opinion based upon the reviews of many within the community, I would say that Anandtech's reviews can be trusted. Furthermore, I feel that situations such as the Inqs accusations are good for the community as a whole as it leads to discussions such as this. For example, if Anandtech was even considering taking a bribe, as the inq suggested, a discussion such as the one currently taking place would surely jolt Anand into reverting back to an unbiased view (at least if the editors had any sense). Something which I believe has been maintained regardless. Finally, if you are a true enthusiast, which most who read sites such as Anandtech are, you would already know that dual core would not benefit things such as gaming and that the real benefits would be for a multitasking situation. So if you were really considering upgrading to dual core you would want to see multitasking results, which Anandtech has supplied. Double finally, if any of this doesnt make sense, then sorry, I hit up the bars tonight :)
Phlargo - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
I have to say, today something happened that made me feel not only like a reader here, but part of a community.I've been going to this site for at least 7 years now (I actually have an old email in my archive to Anand when it was called "Anand's Tech Page" I believe).
When I was reading Part 2 of the multitasking article, I saw that one of my specific requests for benchmarking had been integrated. I was so proud and tickled, I poked my neighbor during a law school class tonight to show him how Anand had integrated my request for multitasking games with other programs in the background. Not surprisingly, he didn't care.
I've gone being a frequent reader who always respects the content of this site to feeling like I belong here: I try to post in the forums as often as I can, I'm building my new computer based almost solely on information and links from this site and its forums, I am familiar with the different styles of the authors and I love reading their different perspectives.
I know this just sounds like a lame fan-boy post, but I'm someone who really has benefited from being a part of this site and community and appreciates it.
Just wanted to say Thank you. I respect your articles and your methodology and I want to see this site last as long as I do.
Anand Lal Shimpi - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - link
CreathirThe new news section is very far along, with all of my traveling and recent NDAs I haven't been able to test the beta yet but hopefully I'll be able to spend some time on it later this month.
As far as the advertising idea, yeah I've been thinking about something similar for a while now. We'll see what I can come up with :)
Scott Smith
It's kind of like this: when we reviewed NVIDIA's SLI, we tested it at high resolutions with AA and AF enabled at maximum detail settings. It was assumed that everyone knew that SLI would offer no benefit at lower resolutions. The same type of assumptions were made with the dual core review, which for the most part turned out to be true based on reader feedback.
As far as not knowing what apps are multithreaded, I tried to provide some guidance in the preview with this statement:
Generally speaking, the following types of applications are multi-threaded:
Video Encoding
3D Rendering
Photo/Video Editing
most types of "professional" workstation applications
However, the vast majority of other applications are single threaded (or offer no performance gain from dual core processors):
office suites
web browsers
email clients
media players
games, etc.
That was from Page 4 of the first review. I will try to make a table of all of our benchmarks and whether or not they are single/multi-threaded, most likely for the next dual core review I attempt.
gnumantsc
There are sites that do things for the free hardware (not as many anymore, that used to be very popular a few years back) but most bigger companies are more strict about samples now, so you have to be a certain size (whether real or perceived) before they'll work with you.
Scott Brodeur
Thanks, that's something I'm glad is actually conveyed through my articles, I am extremely passionate about this stuff. That's usually my number one requirement for a member of AT staff - that they'd be doing this kind of stuff if they weren't being paid to do so.
With regards to ATI, yes they have definitely burned a lot of bridges with their customers as well as the media with their misinformation. We can't just stop reviewing their hardware, but we can definitely change how we deal with products we get from them. It's going to take a lot of work before ATI regains my trust when it comes to believing their release dates for products.
CDK
The biggest reasons for not being able to reproduce benchmark results are as follows:
1) We often test without sound, so gaming tests (except Doom 3, which disables sound by default for timedemos) will usually be lower on your actual machine. We test without sound to limit the number of performance variables in our testbeds, we try to be as scientific as possible. But in our multitasking tests, sound is enabled as MP3 playback is a part of the test suite.
2) Our test beds are 100% fresh installs with nothing above and beyond drivers and benchmarks, that usually impacts performance a bit as well.
We try to do our best to test with retail BIOSes and at retail clocks; generally speaking, manufacturers know not to hand pick the samples they send us - because if we find out about it, it won't be pretty.
brownba
While I can't comment on the infinium labs lawsuit, I can say that Kyle Bennett has always been a straight shooter with me. Both him and Scott Wasson (Tech Report) I have no problems sitting down with and just chatting about the industry. They are about the only folks from the sites out there that I don't feel uncomfortable talking with.
Take care,
Anand
brownba - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
"you come here to read about technology, not about some soap opera and crap that goes on behind the scenes"immediately when i read that line i thought about hardocp and their never-ending battle with infinium labs (the phantom).... i quit reading hardocp after that.
kinda sucks... don't read hardocp or toms anymore, aceshardware used to be awesome, but their lead man, johan, is now here with anand....
so for me all that's left is anand, which is not a bad thing, but we need diversity.
(oh yeah, i do read the inqwell for the humor - love the 'everywhere girl')
CDK - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Hi Anand,I don't think you need to go on debunking every rant on the web. Your work and the trust of so many millions should give you enough confidence to ignore these.
However, I want to mention that across many hardware forums I have come across people who cannot replicate the success of hardware reviewers in acheiving certain performance results with identical hardware setup used by reviewers. This has somewhat dented the credibility of many hardware review sites. I guess there is a case for these sites to use retail products alongside the custom products to inform the people about the real 'real world performance'. I understand that it is difficult/impossible to get new/yet to be launched hardware off the shelf, but you can always update your articles at a later date using retail stuff.
And keep up the good work. AT is the no 1 site I trust for making HW purchase decisions.
gbc02 - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
YOu should do a spin off site called Anandtech:Behind the scenes soap opera.Eric - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Your reviews are by far the most comprehensive, informative, complete, etc. There's probably not enough superlatives to describe them, but it's even better that you're comitted to maintaining/improving their quality.Bottom line: very well done.
Eric
gaidin123 - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Obviously the guy from the Inq was ranting and he obviously ignored parts of part 1 and published before part 2 came up. He got a lot of publicity but that's it.Your site always has had easy to read yet still technical articles and you and the other editors all personally have a passion for what you do which comes through in the articles. That does not make you unfairly biased. And you almost always do everything that's public on this site without any form of complaint or accusations and I appreciate that greatly.
AT's reviews are far and away the most interesting for me unless I'm looking for something very specific or obscure. With the 6, maybe 7 years I've been reading your site, and buying/recommending a lot of hardware based in part on what is published here, I like to think that I would have noticed if you guys weren't thorough enough or were biased without coming to those conclusions through rigorous testing.
Thank you again,
Gaidin
Scott Brodeur - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Thanks for the last 6 years I have been reading your site... it has been a pleasure watching your site (and you) grow up! I have always supported your site and defended it for the quality of the approach reviews.
There are many that have shown bias in reviews over the last few years to manufacturers and have given site a bad rap.
I can't stand those that accuse your site of being "Pro-nVidia" or the such as it is clearly untrue! Can I see biases in your reporting... sure but I can not see any reason one can not give a fair and balanced (not like Fox News BS) views while maintaining a personal touch to reviews. The are few sites that approach reviews with the same obvious passion as you do. You and Scott (Bjorn3D) are clearly excited about the technology you handle... which admitedly can lead to personal biases about a product... but it is always clear that bias comes from the excitement and passion you carry into your work. It is the same mentality I take on when I buy the products you review... clearly always from my own bias.
Please keep up the hard work... I look forward to the years reviews!
PS I wish you and others would take a stand and not review any more Production samples of ATI and nVidia cards. ATI's product record was abysmal last year and you and many other were fooled into reviewing many products that clearly NEVER saw the light of day (6800Ultra EE, X700 XT, Mobility X800, X800 AIW... etc!).
xtknight - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Anand,It used to be the only site I trusted was Tom's Hardware Guide, and that quickly changed when I saw Anandtech. To this day, this is the only place I go to get quality and unbiased (p)reviews of hardware. Not to mention detailed explanations of hardware which teach me something new everyday. Keep up the good work for decades to come...we all appreciate it.
gnumantsc - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Anand,A lot of sites do hardware review not for the love of the readership, but more for getting the chance to keep the hardware. I mean those sites do have to offer some preferential treatment in order to get new stuff all the time.
I do software reviews for my site its a small one but nonetheless, if they give me a free copy or I test their trial version it isn't a difference to me. I offer my opinion and even offer suggestions on nice to have features. If they implement it great, but I never ask for credit for improving their software, nor do they ever say thanks.
I bet The Inq's article about hardware sites got tons of hits because whether they mentionned you indirectly or not, sometimes an article like that makes them a "quick buck".
I would love to see my articles published on a popular site just as this whether or not I make a dime off of it, but you are lucky Anand to have such high readership. I would love it if I had that opertunity. (If I ever get my Linux site up)
Oh and if you don't like the intelliTXT ads, just suggest to your readers that the site only works in FireFox that'll solve the problem :D
Scott Smith - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Anand, the problem was not that your tests aren´t real-world (even though some of them could be calledexotic), but rather that you focussed more on benchmarks that gain a great deal from DC than those
that don´t. The end result is what I described. I´m
looking forward to a complete review in a few weeks/months. I still don´t know which applications from your standard testing suites can benefit from DC and which can´t, e.g. is Winrar multithreaded? What about compiling? Power consumption of the 130W parts as opposed to the single 95W part you tested, and so on.
Keep up the good work, I hope we won´t have to wait for affordable DC Athlon 64 parts until 2006 as you seem to suggest, so that we´ll also see some competition in that market.
Scott
Creathir - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
It is WONDERFUL to hear about the news submission service. That will be very cool indeed.I'm so glad you agree with the IntelliText ads... maybe someday they can be done with. I suppose you could do like certain articles on the Internet suggest and sell out to the manufactures...? ;-D
Obviously they are an attempt to be like Google's AdSense technology, maybe you guys could develop something like that your advertising agency could use? Maybe ads could be listed on one of the side menus as being "relative". Just a thought. Keep up the good work!
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Scott SmithAs I mentioned in the review, I had little more than a weekend to get the article done. So that meant I had to cut some things out, primarily: PC WorldBench which takes around 7 hours to run.
My multitasking tests were created based on feedback from the AT readership, as I mentioned in the article. As far as single threaded benchmarks go, anyone who has followed our articles already knows that single threaded application performance doesn't improve when you move to dual core. Despite that fact, I still included Winstone and SYSMark, both mostly made of single threaded apps and in part 2 I addressed gaming performance as well.
The gaming tests that you refer to in your post were asked for by our readership, which is why I ran them (in addition to single task gaming benchmarks). I felt two single task gaming benchmarks were enough to show, as I mentioned, that gaming performance didn't change from single core to dual core. Remember that this is just a preview and thus can't be expected to have our full test suite in it, our full microprocessor review when the chip is released will be accompanied with a much more complete test suite - but you cannot ignore multi-tasking performance. It's like if we reviewed a SMP workstation and only tested single threaded performance, that's not what readers of that review are interested in.
I also don't believe it's correct to refer to only the old tests as being "real world." I think if you asked the readership, a large number of them would find that the multitasking tests would be more representative of real world usage models for them; maybe not with the same applications, but generally very similar.
As far as not testing Half Life 2, it's difficult to do because every new release of half life 2 breaks our custom-made benchmarks so we have to re-make them. The game count has been reduced simply because I'm retooling our benchmarks for use with some of the newer games that have been released, and retiring older ones.
Take care,
Anand
Scott Smith - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Hi Anand,let me summarize the problem:
You used to have a standard benchmark suite for CPU testing. That one was obviously still great for the launch of the 6xx series. Now that INTEL sends out dual-core preview samples in a PR strike, you start creating boatloads of "multitasking" benchmarks that range from realistic to silly, effectively creating a showcase for INTEL, designed to show the maximum effect dual-core CPUs can bring, but you do not present several of the (previously) standard tests that (probably? impossible to tell since you didn´t publish them) show no improvement at all from dual-core, all these tests that would show a faster single core as the better solution. It´s not hard to see what impression that creates. The overall picture becomes distorted, and if INTEL wanted to showcase their products (in the way manufacturers do), they
would do what you did.
In essence, usage patterns haven´t changed overnight from the 6xx launch to the DC preview. It´s not like we´ve all become freaks overnight that play games at 25fps just to have some 10 other tasks running in the background. Where did all the real-world tests go? What happened to the standard testing suite?
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On another note, even in your standard testing suites, I´ve noticed that you´ve reduced the number of games tested to about 2, while presenting several pages of professional workstation applications that often cost thousands of dollars to own. You´re not even testing Half-Life 2 anymore, probably the most important game out there. Just how representative do you think is that choice for your readers? Think more about what is relevant to the majority of your readers.
All criticism aside, your site is still the best out there, which is the only reason why I took the
time to write this up.
Regards,
Scott
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
leatheredThis deterioration that you speak of has happened numerous times over the past 8 years. The one thing I noticed is that the sites that deteriorate, don't make it. There are tons of sites that used to be semi-popular 4 years ago that aren't even a blip on the radar today. The same will be true 4 years from now.
This community is very self regulating, if people don't trust you, you'll be gone before you know it. And the larger you get, the more eyes you have watching over you.
There's a lot I could tell you about what's happened over the past 8 years. I've got enough to write a novel on, and who knows, maybe that will be my going away present to everyone 10 years from now when I finally throw in the towel :)
I will say this: the absolute worst that happens today behind the scenes amongst hardware sites isn't nearly as bad as what things used to be like. The problem is that a lot of sites these days grow up with the wrong role models, or get involved in the community for the wrong reasons. I won't point fingers or name names, but I will say that I will always do my best to show you the clear and impartial path. I'd say the number of bad sites today is lower than in the past, if you can believe that. There's a lot of pretty bad stuff that goes on behind the scenes, but as someone who has watched this community grow - I'm not worried.
Believe me when I say that I do my best to keep manufacturers in check. If I get wind that they are trying something sketch with anyone else, I let them know that it's not acceptable by any means and I take it as high up as necessary.
As far as manufacturers openly bribing, honestly I haven't even been offered such a thing in about 7 years. Like I said in the blog, manufacturers quickly learned not to try that crap with us. It's always an interesting story to hear about so and so doing this for money, but often times a lot of it is just childish rumors. Remember high school? A lot of what you hear is just like rumors spreading in high school. Silly, no?
Creathir
I'm not a fan of the intellitext ads either, that's why I campaigned for the ability to turn them off. It's a tough balance to strike, we need ads to keep the site running and to grow the staff, but honestly they are distracting. If I could find a way to do away with them while still grow the company, I would do it in a heartbeat.
As far as news goes, the news staff isn't regulated the same way as the editors are. We let them have a little more fun like that ;) But don't worry, soon we will be introducing a slashdot-style news submission system that will make sure that you, the reader, get more of an input on what you'd like to see on AT :)
Take care,
Anand
Creathir - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
A couple of things...I have been visiting Anandtech on literally a daily, if not multi-daily basis for at least 6 years, if not 7 (kinda hard to remember back that far). I have always looked up to the staff of Anandtech as a sou-... no, the source for reliable information in regards to the computer industry. It always amazed me that someone could bring such tremendous information to so many people. (Think about it, Anandtech articles, for the most part, are easy to read from a perspective of having NO knowledge on a topic to quite a fascinating read for people with a more technical knowledge.) The articles always have captured my interest and kept me well informed about current trends and such in the industry.
With that in mind, I would have to say the only time I have ever felt the ads had gone "too far" would have to have been when they started putting the IntelliText ads on the site. I kinda feel like its an intrusion. I know you can turn it off, but I still think its in poor tastes. The only "bias" I have ever noticed would have to be the news guys and their obvious distaste of Microsoft. They are human though, and entitled to their opinion.
Anand, I love the site, I'm envious that I didn't come up with the idea first, and look forward to reading more to come.
leathered - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
I feel I have to defend Charlie here, expecially with carrying the guilt of submitting that article to slashdot :)I've been following Charlie Demerjian's articles ever since he started writing for the Inquirer and have great respect for what he has to say. On many occasions he has talked about how hardware firms often attempt to bribe him into writing favourable reviews.
I feel his article (rant) was born of frustration at what I can only be described as a deteriorating situation in the world of hardware reviews with a only a *few* exceptions (AT included). He article seems to be firing in all directions and I don't believe AT was a specific target, despite some /. gossiper's interpretation.
Anand, I admire your restraint in your comments, but I would admire you more if you would confirm what I and many others believe, being that the *majority* of the countless hardware review sites are corrupt, dishonest or plain incompetent; especially the latter.
I purchase computer hardware for a living and I find AT an invaluable resource for information. However I would be a fool to rely on AT as my sole source. But when an increasing number of sites are turning out reviews which have more holes in them than a swiss cheese, I keeping asking myself, who can I trust? This is why I feel you should go on the offensive to differentiate yourself or risking having yourself associated with them.
All the best an keep up the good work.
MemberSince97 - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Anand, Thanks for your candidness, I bought a California Graphics Photon 100 not 1111, based on your recommedations way back then. It was the biggest POS for K6III ,I'm still here. I remember the BBS would die every six (weeks ,months) and my post count would have to start again and again and Again...lol . I still trust this site more than any and it will always be my home for the latest and greatest.Bob
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
One more thing: I appreciate everyone's show of support, but let's not turn this into a bash-fest of anyone else out there. That's not the reason why I posted this and it's definitely not what I'm about.Thanks again guys :)
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Thanks for the replies guys, they all mean a lot to me.Rand
I saw your comments in the other thread and responded to them there, but I'd also like to add that I do want you all to keep us in check. We're no better than anyone else, we just work hard and try to do the best job possible, and we will screw up - when we do, point it out (nicely please :)) and we'll always do our best to make things right.
Our loyalty lies with the readers, not with who pays the bills and not with who sends us hardware. If it resided anywhere else, we'd be in a much different situation today.
Take care,
Anand
Rajeev - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
That Inquirer guy is an ass and doesn't know about what he's talking about. First off, he talks about how "nobody multitasks like that". Well, he obviously hasn't spent any time as a web designer (even an amateur like me) or he would have. Second, that was Part I of the article- the guy didn't even wait for part II to bash.Anyway, Anand, you know that most people who actually read your site don't feel that way. Demerjian obviously needed to rant (he is paid to after all) and found your site. He had to come up with something. Your actions do speak for you- your reviews are the most balanced out there (unlike the shit TomsHardware slaps on the web) and people really do trust you. After all, we wouldn't be posting here if we didn't. There are even a good amount of Slashdotters defending you.
AnandTech is the place I go for for the most balanced, fair, in-depth reports out there. Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to another eight years.
-Rajeev
Doug - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
By the way, I must mention that I trust the following sites with facts:AnandTech, Xbit Labs, TechReport, CoolTechZone, ExtremeTech and sometimes HardOCP.
There are others that cover specific topics, but I have only listed the more general ones.
Doug - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Hi Anand,I must say that I am touched by this blog entry. And I don't care what everyone says, I have been coming to AnandTech for the past four years and AnandTech has never let me down. I know many people say that I should read more reviews on other sites to make an educated decision, but I only stick to AnandTech for my buying advice.
I agree. So what if AnandTech is a business. I think it's only rightful for you to make money out of something that you have worked hard on for the past eight years. Just because AnandTech is a business doesn't mean it is unethical. I personally hate it when people can't trust a review because an advertiser is advertising on the site. It's just stupid. After all, you have to make a living somehow so why not do it with something you love.
Once again, I am touched and inspired by your parents and you. It's truly amazing what you guys have accomplished in the past two decades or so. Oh and don't take crap out of from people who don't know any better (The Inquirer). The Inquirer is known to be a stupid site and since they are accusing of being bought out, I would say (when you look at it from another angle) that they are not 100% honest either. Looks at the advertisements they have on their site. Should we start accusing them of being biased to Sapphire, SiS and Newegg?
Like I said, you are the best at what you do. Don't worry about what others think. If you lie, your reviews will show your bias. But thus far, I have only seen honesty in your work. There were a couple articles that were mediocre, but then again you are a human and you are allowed to make some mistakes in your 8 year career.
Keep up the excellent work Anand and never get discouraged.
Rand - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
I said this elsewhere in responce to something you said, but it seems equally well suited to post here so:"but with all of the conspiracy theories bubbling out there I'm sure someone would interpret it as an Intel/NVIDIA forced move :)"
Frankly I suspect that's bound to happen even if you do include them, any unusual or unexpected results or surprising gains that cause the NF4 Intel Edition to approach AMD where it normally wouldn't will be looked upon with suspicion by some.
I'd simply try to ignore it and continue on as you do, people will have to decide for themselves whether their willing to put their faith in your integrity.
Personally I long since decided you were reasonably knowledgeable and legitimately concerned with presenting the most accurate and realistic results you could for readers.
Ganted, there have been articles I found very questionable and others I simply felt poorly written but the evidence has always led me to feel those rare incidents are more likely due to a rushed article or incompetence (No offence intended, even the best of writers make mistakes) rather then outright deception or bias.
There are many sites out there and many more reviewers, given time people will come to their own conclusions on whom they feel they can/cannot put their faith in to present valid results.
nic - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Thumbs up. You are Quality.Duke out
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
ATManPeople attack me all the time, but if AT readers start questioning things that they shouldn't have to I feel a need to step forward and explain them a bit about how things work.
But for the most part, I like to let my actions speak for themselves. I'm hoping that over the past 8 years, they have done just that.
Take care,
Anand
ATMan - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Anand, and why do you think the readers asked you the question? They obviously read teh inq.net article and it seems you have so. Just admit that you were irritated by it and felt the need to respond :)!Anonymous - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Anand, maybe this post is in response to Charlie Demerjian's unspecific rant on the Inq the other day. If it is, I say it is unwarranted. Anyone who reads the reviews can tell that they are the most thorough and unbiased around, so keep up the good work.Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
I don't respond to attacks, this is more for the AT readership that requested to hear something from me with regards to this topic.Thanks for the kind words Mark :)
Take care,
Anand
ATMan - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
FYI... Anand is obviously rebutting to the inquirer.net arrticle ( http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22332 ) that is accusing Anand of being bought out and the Slashdot comments that accuse Anand of the same : http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/05/04/06/171...Mark Little - Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - link
Wow, Anand.It looks like you needed to get some stuff off your chest. Has their been a lot of bad blood going on between the journalists, readers and manufacturers?
Well, like you said, I don't want a soap opera so don't answer that question. Your reviews are top notch and that is all I care about.
What hardware to buy? Where to buy it? And when? is the only purpose I come to Anandtech for. Any other enjoyment coming out of the forums or comments sections is just bonus.
Keep up the good work and I look forward to another 8 years.