Blogging in class again

by Anand Lal Shimpi on 1/21/2004 10:58 AM EST
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  • slalah - Sunday, February 8, 2004 - link

    My own experience with Macs: I had four self-built PC's of the Athlon/Duron variety and decided to try out an eMac/iBook combination (I'm very cheap). By the end of the year all of my PC's were starting to gather dust as I started using the Mac more and more often. My only qualm is that I actually had to pay for Office. iTunes and my 40GB iPod (which also backs up my /user directory) combined with all of the free creative software that is included has switched me completely off of PC use in my home. I also find myself remotely administering most of the PC's via VNC and RDP (MS Terminal services) while at work. There are a few IE only web tools that I need to administer that currently don't work well with Safari or Firebird, but this is very rare.

    I currently have only one computer-- a 15" Albook with a DVD burner and 512MB of DDR RAM. I find that it does everything I currently need a computer to do.

    I've got the latest build of Ethereal plus a really great wireless listening app (Kismac) to do basic forensics and security checks.

    Though I was originally skeptical about .Mac, I have to agree that it really does streamline your computing experience. I may even get rid of my domain and start using .Mac for my blog and for posting all of my digital photos to friends and relatives if I can get over the whole ego thing about sending links to a .Mac site.

    The Powerbooks and iBooks are just great all around computers. If Apple would just introduce a low priced desktop with a G5, then I would probably purchase one of those as well to be the center of my digital entertainment hub. (I rarely watch TV anymore and just purchase any series I want off of Amazon, or have Conan capped from a friend.) I watch all my movies off of an InFocus X1 digital projector... it's great.
  • Arun - Monday, January 26, 2004 - link

    Evan the reason you haven't seen many CS Majors with Apples is because you haven't gone out into the real world.

    I do OS kernel development (UNIX) for a living and prefer my PowerBook over my two PCs. One of them died because of memory issues (win2k killed itself) and I haven't bothered recovering data or fixing it yet. Before my powerbook which is now 3 months old (first apple I have ever owned) I would have spent a night fixing it.

    I built the PC myself with parts hand picked after reading reviews here and on tomshardware. I have had nothing but problems with all the cheap PC hardware to date. 2 bad hardrives (probably because of the Power Supply) got a new PS. Bad memory that killed my OS, all of this probably because of a bad mother board. I used Soyo, Maxtor, ATI, Mushkin.

    I wish the PC had firewire target mode support like the apples. I could have used it to get the data off the PC with out having to reinstall the OS or move the disk to another system. Target mode alows one system to act like a disk and get mounted on another system via a fire wire cable. All I would have to do was set my PC to target mode in the firmware (BIOS/OBP) and mount the disk on my laptop and pull all the data.

    Macs have some cool features that many PCs or even Unix boxes don't
  • GL - Monday, January 26, 2004 - link

    Adam, Macs use regular ATA-compatible hard disks. Notwithstanding certain drive geometry incompatibilities that computers from that time exhibit with the much larger HDs today, If you paid a premium for a Mac-compatible model you got ripped off. Not only that, but Panther has built in support for reporting S.M.A.R.T. errors. Furthermore, all Macs ship with a diagnostic CD that you can boot to test various components such as RAM, video chipset, and hard disks. If you were feeling especially motivated, you might even boot into OpenFirmware and see what you could do from there.

    There was a way to deal with your situation - you just were not aware of it.

    Which leads me to another interesting phenomenon regarding Mac perceptions. When people encounter a problem with Windows and Linux, they assume there must be a solution but they are not aware of it. When people encounter a problem with Macs, they assume there is no solution because if there were one, they would be aware of it.

    As for the cornocopia of hardware solutions, let's look at today's current OEMs for hardware components (readily available to upgrade a Mac or PC):

    CPUs: Mac { IBM, Motorola }, PC { Intel, AMD, Transmeta }
    Motherboards: Mac { none }, PC { several }
    RAM: Mac, PC { the same providers }
    Hard disks: Mac, PC { the same providers }
    Optical drives: Mac, PC { the same providers though you may need to purchase CD/DVD-authoring software for the Mac or hack some resource files for native support }
    Video : Mac { Nvidia, ATI }, PC { Nvidia, ATI, S3 }
    Sound: Mac { M-Audio, several high end companies }, PC { AOpen, C-Media, Creative Labs, M-Audio, several high end companies }
    Keyboards & Mice: Mac, PC ( the same providers }

    With the exception of CPU choice, where neither the PC camp or Mac camp can source parts from the other for their systems, most of the hardware is available on all platforms today. And of the vast majority of hardware upgrades, the only blatantly missing company on the Mac side is Creative Labs and the motherboard makers. But for video cards, when was the last time you wanted a S3 card?

    For those that are interested, I would highly recommend checking out this guy's webpage - he upgraded his eMac and also overclocked it from 800 MHz to 1.33 GHz. And no, he didn't have the help of overclocking via BIOS nor jumpers on the motherboard.

    http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/eMac/eMac-upgrade...
  • Adam - Monday, January 26, 2004 - link

    I grew up myself using Macintosh; actually I never used anything else existed until I got a PC two years ago.

    The real issue that Anand brought up was that the hardware did not excite him and the OS was uncomfortable for him. I agree.

    I just installed Panther 10.3 on a G4 that my parents have owned for a couple of years. I purchased a new harddrive for it because the 10 GB disk that came with it was, to be frank, crap. I bought a new "Mac Compatible" HDD.

    Installation of Panther went perfectly. It was up and running in a few hours. My mom did her email and shopping; when my sister came in town she did some homework and internet browsing. Then all of the sudden booting problems with the disk. Some component was failing--but here is the real willy--I could not diagnose the problem. Why? All of the hardware is literally screwed into metal plates on the motherboard. And Apple's hardware is so stinking proprietary that there is no way to really replace any component.

    At least with a PC there is a way to deal with situations like this. With PC's we have a cornocopia of hardware soltutions and variable configurations that are just not available on the Mac platform. That is boring to me.

    And as far as I know, OSX has very little configurability. One thing that is nice about WinXP is you can strip it down for performance, configure it to your liking, even make it "look" like OSX, if that is what you like.

  • Evan - Saturday, January 24, 2004 - link

    I've tried PC's and apples for years as a casual user and a programmer. I have yet to find one CS major (including myself) who preferred the Apples. That really says more to me than my own preference towards hardware.

    Not being able to upgrade is just one of many flaws.

    Also, to those who say there's only one mouse button: PLUG IN A 2+ BUTTON MOUSE!
  • GTaudiophile - Friday, January 23, 2004 - link

    Virge & GL: Fantastic, thought-out posts!
  • GL - Thursday, January 22, 2004 - link

    Generalizations are never 20/20, but I think there are a few more subtle reasons why PC users frown upon Macs. Certainly, some of these reasons were my own prior to 2003.

    1) An inflated ego over PC skills. Disregard the fact that 90% of current PC hobbyists' eyes would glaze over with the mention of smartdrv.sys, himem.sys and emm386.exe et al; or the connection between port 220/DMA 1/IRQ 5 and Soundblaster; or when asked to get excited about the simplicity of a COAST module over previous technologies. Simply put, these PC users are proud (as they should be) that they have a certain skill. But anything that will even come close to making that skill useless or outdated, is a big threat to their ego. And the funny thing is that modern PC assembly and usage is a cake walk compared to how it used to be. Today's PC enthusiasts are playing with Duplo blocks whilst yesterday's generation were forced to play with Technic kits sans instructions, so to speak. I'm sure somewhere in this world, somebody is repairing 8-track players and is damn proud. But the rest of the world has moved on. If you don't have a clue what an 8-track player is, let alone understand how to fix one, nobody cares. My suggestion to this group of people is to not let their ego get in the way of broadening their horizons when it comes to technology. Maybe that 8-track repair person's skill is rather useless today - but perhaps s/he's taught him/herself how to repair DVD players.

    2) Piracy. Admit it - how many of you budget software prices into the cost of your computer? I see several hands...out of an audience of thousands. When you buy a Mac, you're paying for the hardware and the OS, iLife, and a few bundled apps. Apple may even get more out of you, as .Mac provides several services that make the experience of using their computers even more seamless. This raises the cost of the computer and there's no getting out of it. Sure, I enjoy buying my PC parts at cut-rate prices in those gray static bags too! But if I were forced to shell out for the OS and core applications I used for every PC I've assembled, I might not be so thrilled about the costs of my hobby. And no - those cheap eMachines and Dells with their own software bundles have got nothing on the quality and breadth of the software that comes pre-installed on even the lowest end Mac.

    3) Fear of being associated with previous stereotypical Mac users. There was a time when I'd hide myself in the corner of the coffee shop, sipping my latté, wearing my black turtleneck, feverishly typing on my iBook hoping nobody was laughing at me, the stereotypical Mac user. OK, all kidding aside, how many people have this outdated perception of what a Mac user is? How many of the people that just answered 'yes', look down on that particular mental picture. I see; quite a few. Well, for all you geeks that don't want to be mistaken for being a San Franciscan starving artist, why not check out some of the newer Mac users. You know, like Srinidhi Varadarajan who brought new meaning to the infamous Slashdot motto "imagine a beowulf cluster of those!". Or how about Bill Joy. Or Robert Metcalfe. Or Tim O'Reilly. Or several members of the team that brings you Perl. If you can't be comfortable being listed alongside these Mac users, then you're right - perhaps they aren't your cup of tea.

    Anyways, I thought I'd just bring to attention some of the more subtle, though in my opinion, more predominant reasons why some people decide not to use a Mac in this day and age. It's not all about cost and videogames.
  • ChefJoe - Thursday, January 22, 2004 - link

    Well, I recently had to bring a few G3 computers up to date. We went with Mac OS X 10.2 and I'm very impressed. I've been a PC user since the dos days and things just seemed too dumbed down - especially with the one button mouse. It irked me. Well, after rebuilding the two G3s I started to like these Macs. Sure, I'm not going to replace my home PC with one, but I'm actually very comfortable using them for light duty tasks with OS X. The neat taskbar thing at the bottom and the fact that you can use USB 2 button scroll mice just fine (it's a miracle) and the really nice setup for the filesystem and permissions. I know I've barely tapped what's included in the OS install, but I'm still very impressed.
  • Anonymous - Thursday, January 22, 2004 - link

    3 intelligent posts in a row and then number 7....
  • Raj - Thursday, January 22, 2004 - link

    I think ViRGE should be a reviewer!!!
  • wicktron - Thursday, January 22, 2004 - link

    OS-X is definitely a wonderful OS. Hell, if there was more game support for it, I'd probably completely move over to a Mac.

    But then again, Macs don't fulfull my rabid addiction to overclocking.
  • lnguyen - Thursday, January 22, 2004 - link

    I have added a mac to the hardware list.. an iBook. It definately is costly, but I got a refurb. I actually like OS X. Some people may feel it too "simple" but that's what makes it really easy. I can see why it'd be nice for the computer illiterate. Hell, I love how you "install" programs... no dll hell.

    With that said, I could never switch my main comp to a mac, waaay too costly. And I'm too accustomed to Windows. But my next laptop will be a 12" powerbook. I have yet to see anything on the PC side to match it in style (in the same footprint, I won't use a bigger laptop:)). Power is a moot point since I'm not doing anything intensive.
  • Anonymous - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    macs(dont deserve to be capitalized) eww. Stop talking about them please. No need to technicaly explain why because just like macs it would be a waste of time
  • GL - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    My main computer is now an iBook 700. To put things into perspective, I was previously using a high-end Pentium 4 computer. My reason for switching was OS X. It's really a kickass operating system. No, it's not perfect. But the sort of complaints I have about OS X are about as vain as telling a supermodel to drop a couple of pounds.

    Mac OS X development is also awesome. Cocoa is a great framework. Once you get used to Objective-C's syntax quirkiness, you learn to appreciate its simple beauty. I actually much prefer Obj-C to C++ nowadays. There is a consistent, well thought-out, principled approach to Mac OS X's design that only a geek can admire.

    There are just so many things that get overlooked about OS X. It has the most comprehensive scriptable GUI out there. I can make a script that could take this little message I'm writing, and summarize it. While I'm typing this, I'm making use of system-wide spell checking. I've made a script that reads aloud e-mail from certain important people in my address book as it arrives in my inbox (so that I don't have to stop what I'm doing unless it's important). Rendezvous (IEEE Zeroconf) is tremendously convenient and continues to amaze me to this day, especially when used in conjuction with a wireless connection.

    As I mention to everyone who asks "why did you switch?", I would have laughed at myself 3 years ago if someone were to tell me that I'd be using a Mac as my main computer. But people change, products change, and somewhere along the line this past year, I had the opportunity to try out a Mac. I haven't looked back.

    I'm looking forward to puchasing my next computer which will be a dual G5 - hopefully Apple will upgrade their top of the line to a dual 2.6 GHz soon. Let me know when AnandTech starts taking review samples <cough> just in case you need somebody to show you the ropes :-)
  • ViRGE - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    To answer your Mac questions Anand, what I think you're seeing is a general realization that even though the Mac platform has weaknesses(although, all platforms have weaknesses), the Mac's are primarily in the Desktop arena; Apple's laptops on the other hard are nearly perfect.

    I'm both a PC gamer and a Mac user myself, so I can offer my insights as follows. Because I'm a gamer(and to a lesser extent, a tweaker), a Mac desktop simply doesn't match my needs; I'd love to get one, and I'd probably use it most of the time, but since it doesn't really do games, it's a bit silly to have 2 machines when I can only use 1 of them at a time. It's for this reason that I instead have a PC as a desktop, but a Mac as a laptop, even though I paid for a Mac OOP instead of recieving a free(crappy) Dell. Since I don't intend to game on a laptop, it removes the biggest concerns I have with a Mac laptop, and I can instead focus on its strengths.

    As far as Mac laptops go, they offer better wireless support than anything else out there on the market, with OS X's wireless control system many times simplier than a PC's/WinXP's, but still as functional. The quality of the body must also be noted, as even though a PowerBook can scratch easily due to the metal casing, it does not break as easily as plastic, so it will hold up better. The hardware is a bit underpowered compared to PCs, but this isn't a concern to me, since in 2004, there are few things that truely tax a machine, none of which I'm going to do on a laptop. The single mouse button is also a good touch(ironically enough), since I don't need to worry about what I'm pressing in the small space of a laptop.

    The rest of a PowerBook's strength then lies in OS X, like you've stated. There is no argument that it takes a bit of time to learn OS X, but underneath the Aqua/Metal finish, there is a lot of power that can be exploited from it, if you want to go that far; it can be as simple or as complex as one needs it to be. Things like the iApps are a nice touch, and OS X, once you've learned the hang of it, seems to be easier to use(and I'm sorry I can't quantify the reason why), which is a benefit in the tight controls/screenspace of a laptop. The Unix base is also great to have, as it allows me to make use of a lot of interesting little GNU/free widgets.

    OS X does have a couple of weaknesses I'd like to note for, just for the record. My biggest pet peave is that unlike WinXP, OS X does not have native headphone spatialization(a special channel mixing technique to avoid the distinct channel seperation of each ear being isolated), so most things sound a little "off" when using it with headphones. This is really only noticable when watching movies or listening to music however, so I use VLC, which features its own spatializer. My other complaint is a general platform complaint, in that being a non-Windows, non-IE platform, not every last site works correctly, although it's only when I go well off the beaten path that I encounter issues.

    Other than that however, I am very happy with my PC/Mac duo nature. At the very least Anand, you're not exactly a poor fellow, so bite the bullet and give it a try; I think you'll quickly become adapt at the machine and the OS, and come to like it(and if not, you can quickly resell it, and get most of your money back). At the very least, as a closed platform, you won't have to worry about hardware too much, which even as a hardware guru, is a good thing, since even The Boss could use a break.:)
  • GTaudiophile - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    Anand, please share that R420 info when you can!

    I was introduced to computers in first grade at the age of 7. The computer I was introduced to was a Macintosh Plus. Between 1987 and 1996, my family only used Macs...and I learned squat about most aspects of computing. It wasn't until I begged my parents for a PC, "broke" it the day after Christmas, and spent five hours on the phone with Gateway tech support that I began my lust for learning about all things PC. Of course, the Gateway we bought in 1996 has come and gone but the circa-1993 Macintosh LCIII we have is still going strong. I think that is a testament to Apple's reliability and build quality.

    Apple has certainly come a long way since 1994. Their machines are masterpieces of proper industrial design. OS X has the most beautiful and refined GUI in PC history. But I think looking good is enough for Apple. They cater to a niche market, a market willing to pay a premium for that look and design. If that makes Apple's stock holders happy, I have no problem with that. In fact, if more companies adopted Apple's philosophy of effective and intuitive hardware design, everyone would benefit.

    But as for my personal choice in computers, my recent decision to buy a PC laptop over an Apple Powerbook clearly indicates that I am not willing to pay a price premium for a device that will be laregely incompatible with the majority of the rest of the world. As slick as OS X is, I can't afford to go buy new software for a new platform.
  • Anonymous - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    need more mouse
  • jake - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    That's an interesting question...

    I never wanted an Apple PC, for much the same reasons as you. Lately they're getting better and I htink using IBM instead of Motorola will be fruitfull. The G5 is a good start.

    I decided a while ago that I needed a laptop, I have wirless all over my apt for my old roommates laptop, and my parents use it, so I can hook up in many places. Plus, nothing beats being able to sit anywhere in the house, and still connect.

    So, since I have a very good friend who works for Apple I decided to get a newer 15" powerbook. I like OS X, and now I have a Windows machine, a linux box, and an Apple computer. Works for me. The speed is pretty good and though I haven't really tried gaming on it, it does come with an Ati 9600 video card. I'm gonna try it after I upgrade my RAM. Long story short, it may not be an Alienware super laptop, but it's a good machine in its own right.

    And James, yes they still have one damn button, but as with all modern computers, you can buy a different mouse. (I'm considering getting a bluetooth logitech wireless setup. I could bring it back and forth between my desktop, and my powerbook. :) )
  • James Geurts - Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - link

    The problem I have with Apple hardware is the single mouse button. Maybe this has changed, but in any case, it has left a big soar spot with me.

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