Comments Locked

31 Comments

Back to Article

  • shabby - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    Shouldn't the title read ddr4 to ddr5 converter card?
  • ikjadoon - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    DDR5 Slot to DDR4 Slot Converter is most correct: this add-in card cannot convert DDR4 dies to DDR5 dies, so it's not a "DDR4 to DDR5 converter", technically.

    It's converting the DDR5-capable slot to a DDR4-capable slot. It's still DDR4 you'll be using.

    And, because it's not a universal solution, more like "ASUS ROG on UEFI xx.xx DDR5-slot to DDR4-slot Converter", if this leaves the prototype stage.
  • at_clucks - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    Language isn't precise enough here to adequately describe this with one word. Conversion implies tow states so depending on which end do you consider for your point of view: it converts between a DDR5 connector and a DDR4 connector. "To" and "from" mean little in this setup, this may very well transform a DDR4 slot (of the adapter) in a DDR5 one. The adapter after all is half slot, half "module", using the chips on the DDR4 memory, adding the extra power management that normally is on the MoBo PCB, and more, into one DDR5-Franken-module.

    Perhaps a "DDR4 module to DDR5 slot" would be the most straight forward description.
  • Ian Cutress - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    The PCB here says DDR5 to DDR4
  • Brane2 - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    What a clustefuck.
    First you pay heavy rpemium for the DDR5 MoBo for extra layers and better materials that DDR5 mandates.
    And THEN you have to pay extra $$$ on top of that TO REVERT MOST OF THOSE CHANGES BACK.
  • meacupla - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    With Intel 12th gen, DDR4 mobos are not a problem, but AMD 6000 series might only work with DDR5, leaving no option to run with DDR4.

    And then this adapter might come in handy, when you can't find DDR5, because scalpers.
  • RaistlinZ - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    Yeah...until scalpers buy up all the converter cards. This is the new world we live in.
  • mode_13h - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    >.until scalpers buy up all the converter cards.

    Motherboards can include a pair of these shims, if DDR5 availability continues to be so problematic.
  • flyingpants265 - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link

    ... Yeah, I think I'll just stay on DDR4.
  • timecop1818 - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    The article very clearly says the adapter does NOT actually convert DDR4 signalling to DDR5, nor is it even possible to do reasonably.

    What the system does, is the BIOS configures the CPU to run in DDR4 memory mode, which happens to use the same pins on the cpu, and then electrically adapts DDR4 module to connect to those signals, and provides the needed power regulation etc that the module needs.

    If AMD ever releases a DDR5 only board, you'll need DDR5 RAM to go with it, and no conversion will be possible.
  • web2dot0 - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    But Apple computers aren't upgradeable .... hahahaha.

    This is precisely why people don't upgrade their computers. Instead, people just buy new ones.

    There's no point ... technology change so fast that in 3-5years after your computer purchase, you mind as well sell your laptop/desktop and buy a brand new one.

    Trying to upgrade RAM/SSD/CPU/GPU is a fools errand.

    DDR4 --> DDR5
    PCI3 --> PCI4/5
    CPU Socket changes
    USB3 --> USB4/TB4
    Hell, even WIFI6 --> WIFI6E

    Yearly computer upgrades are for nerds and geeks.

    Regular people upgrade their computers in 3-5-7-10years intervals.
  • Oxford Guy - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    ‘This is precisely why people don't upgrade their computers’

    There have been situations that make upgrading worthwhile, such as a family member’s system that has 16 GB of 3200, a B450 Tomahawk, and a Zen 1 CPU.

    Upgrading that system to a Zen 3 chip is a no-brainer, especially since he lives near a MicroCenter.

    Apple machines also used to frequently benefit tremendously from things like replacing mobile hard drives with SSDs and increasing the RAM.
  • DigitalFreak - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    Always makes me laugh when people scream about Intel changing their socket ever couple of years. So what? If you upgrade your CPU every year you are an idiot.
  • ayunatsume - Saturday, January 1, 2022 - link

    That't not the only reason.

    Ever had a PC that you bought mid-range because of cost that lasted you, what, 4-8 years? Then you figure that the newest entry-level or mid-range processor is basically as fast as the fastest one available for your socket/platform? You always have the option of just buying a cheap old stock or used processor to upgrade your "old" PC to its best potential at probably the same or lower cost that the processor ALONE of you new build.

    Save for instance, my old but trusty 2500k. At 4.4GHz, it's still as fast as a i5-6500 or a Ryzen 1400-1600. Give it a 2600k/3770k and push the memory to 1866MHz-2133MHz and you just bumped your PC up to catch up a bit more. Maybe just enough to hold on to AM5/DDR5 when you can finally make that complete generational leap into another "upgradable" socket.

    That's what I did -- my PC can still do some video editing, heavy photoshop, and 1440p60 gaming.

    Same for the people who have AM4 systems right now -- they don't need to surrender to scalping on DDR5 and whatnot, they can just push their B450 boards from a Ryzen 1400 to a 5800x when the need arises -- especially useful when the pricing of latest tech right now is just utter bull and insane.

    I've even had some life breathed into my old G43/P45 LGA775 systems -- they started life out with a Pentium 4 945, a Pentium Dual Core E2100, or a Core 2 Duo E4400 -- now they all got Core 2 Quads I got for 10 bucks each. My AM3+ systems that started with an Athlon 2 x2? Well they got FX-6300s or a Phenom 965/1055 now. All of them still perfect for still image and office tasks. Heck the FX-6300 is even doing AI :)
  • bill.rookard - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    Exactly. I picked up a Ryzen 1700 quite some time ago. Should I ever decide to upgrade my system, I can pick up a used 3000 series Zen chip, or go as you mentioned right up to 5000 series Zen which is current generation, and the compute capability will go up quite a bit. You know what though, my 1700 still crunches numbers pretty damn well. Coupled with a Titan Black (yeah - that's pretty old) it's a pretty decent machine.
  • damianrobertjones - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    Sits here, typing, on a 12th gen computer that he built himself. Looks across to the 10th gen rig, that could have had an 11th gen cpu added.

    Regrets nothing.
  • back2future - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    depends on preferences: upcycling stable hardware with new cpu (AMD on 10-15yrs period?) or adding new peripherals with upgrading a mainboard (Intel on a maybe 5yrs period?) at higher overall cost for newer standards.
    What do we compare, if for e.g. DDR4 is still accepted standard, where cpus on sockets are upgraded, instead of changing a whole system (cpus, mainboard, disks, memory, ). It's easy changing hdd with sdd on s-ata or pcie, because connectors and protocols have been kept stable and compatible. Changing power supply for memory, or going from 4.6GHz to 7.2GHz data transfer clock speed raises cost and demand on quality for materials, also.
    It is a decision between different systems of upgrading "philosophy" between AMD and Intel?
  • mode_13h - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    Depends on your needs. If you do something where the added speed of Alder Lake provides a noticeable benefit, then it might've been worthwhile.

    I wouldn't typically recommend anyone do a single-generation upgrade, unless you're also starting with a low/mid-tier CPU and just looking for the most cost-effective way to add some horsepower.
  • mode_13h - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    > This is precisely why people don't upgrade their computers. Instead, people just buy new ones.

    I typically do a mid-life upgrade of my PC memory by doubling it. On the PC I'm using right now, I've actually done 2 such upgrades.

    > technology change so fast that in 3-5years after your computer purchase,
    > you mind as well sell your laptop/desktop and buy a brand new one.

    I've never replaced a PC after less than 7 years or so. I buy towards the upper-end of the range do a mid-life upgrade of the memory & storage (sometimes also the GPU) and that's always worked fine for me.

    > CPU Socket changes

    I never upgraded a CPU, in a personal machine (aside from an old laptop!). However, that's because I always start towards the upper end. If someone buys a mid-range CPU and replaces it with an upper-end CPU from a newer generation, it can indeed be a very worthwhile upgrade. True, even with AM4 boards, you're somewhat limited in terms of how many generations they can span, and you don't necessarily get all the benefits the newer CPU can provide.

    > Yearly computer upgrades are for gamers.

    Fixed that for you.
  • MommiesBoobas - Friday, February 11, 2022 - link

    You're missing the point! This module is so you can buy a next gen motherboard and use your old RAM until you can find or obtain the DDR5 RAM.... You're not really losing anything because this allows you to be able to buy a Superior component and still be able to use it without having to waste your money buy settling on buying an older gen or inferior product that will become obsolete!
  • Kunsh - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    Try to design 2xDDR4 modules to single DDR5 slot .. that will be fun.
  • kpb321 - Thursday, December 30, 2021 - link

    Since this is still in development I'm not sure it will ever see the light of day. It might make sense right now as a way to get a DDR5 board now and use it with DDR4 for a bit until DDR5 prices come down but that is going to be a pretty small window. You are obviously going to have some costs for the adapters and the price differential needs to be noticeably more than that to justify going this route as the adapters will just be a sunk cost once you upgrade to DDR5 most likely. Limited support for motherboards and price differential presumably won't justify using them by the time you upgrade so pretty much no chance to sell them for any meaningful amount. When you factor that in it might be cheaper to just buy a DDR4 MB now and a new DDR5 MB and DDR5 memory when prices come down. Especially if their is a premium for the DDR5 MBs right now too.

    It might have a window where it makes some sense but it isn't going to be a long one really so it needs to be out ASAP to actually be useful.
  • DigitalFreak - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    By the time this thing comes out, either the DDR5 shortage will be over, or it will be ridiculously expensive.
  • COtech - Friday, December 31, 2021 - link

    If they can build this into an adapter I'm sure they can build it into their motherboards.

    I can see this as a proof of concept quick mash-up.
  • mode_13h - Sunday, January 2, 2022 - link

    That would burn valuable motherboard real estate. I think keeping it as an adapter is the better option. That doesn't compromise anything for those who want to run DDR5.
  • Lord of the Bored - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link

    They can, easily. The problem is Intel WON'T ALLOW IT, because options are confusing and empty memory slots look ugly.

    This is what happens when someone takes total control of the platform. You wouldn't have this issue with a SIS chipset.
  • back2future - Saturday, January 1, 2022 - link

    It would be an interesting tool for comparing DDR4 and DDR5 in parallel configuration setups.
    A lot of items to ask about, with comparing
  • unhuman - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link

    BITD, I used Simmverter to convert 30 pin RAM to 72 pin... Took 4 modules and combined them to 1. The ones I had were not reliable, at all...
  • casteve - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link

    The large increase in trace length plus the added connector capacitance will have a big impact on max memory frequency and min CL. Best case scenario is for people that have existing DDR4 RAM they can pop into a new "DDR5" mobo with these adapters. Then, when DDR5 prices become reasonable, buy that.
  • back2future - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link

    might result into a 0.1-0.2 nano seconds for 2-3 inch increase for trace length (with suggested values for Er~4 (2.7-3.5 materials for upto 100GHz) for pcb dielectric constant); critical if logic's rise time is lower than trace length delay, increased attenuation?
    https://www.zuken.com/en/blog/how-to-calculate-tra...
    https://www.protoexpress.com/blog/ddr4-vs-ddr5-the...
  • back2future - Monday, January 3, 2022 - link

    correction: critical if logic's rise time is slower than trace length delay, but it could reduce signal reflection difficulties to some extent

Log in

Don't have an account? Sign up now