G76MP4? And this is being marketed for gamers? I know Mediatek is a value company, but this seems very low considering it is Mali (not reputed for good performance). Difficult for manufacturers to put this chip in phones which would be advertised for their gaming performance without risking disappointing their customers IMO.
I calculate something... As ARM double the number of lanes between G72 and G76, G76 is at least twice better If you take GFxBench Manhattan 3.0 test, you will get : 20 fps on Helio P60 (1920x1080) with Mali G72mp3 800mhz On G90 with G76mp4 720mhz, you can expect around : 20x4x2/3x720/800=48fps
On Snapdragon 730, you get 38fps on this test... As Qualcomm say their 730G is 25% better than 730, you can expect around...48fps
What is sad is that Mediatek keeps 12nm process...even if a 720mhz GPU may be stable
That's not how that works. Firstly, with the doubling the quad size in the G76 compared to the G72, the theoetical bump in performance is not at least twice better, but exactly twice as good (from the article in Anandtech about it, the scaling is supposed to be very good, so let's say ~2). Secondly you cannot compute the performance like that, no GPU scales linearly with execution units and frequency. There are many other considerations, such as memory system, power/thermal envelope, variations from arch to arch, CPU... For example, the Exynos 9820 in the S10 get about 102fps in Manhattan 3.0 even though it has triple the quads, and about the same frequency (with your computation, it should have reached around 140fps).
I think memory won't limit G90 as it is 2x16bits lpddr4x 2133mhz... I think even 730G with slower memory won't be limited
We're already agree to say G76 is twice better than G72... We're agree too on execution units...when you compare mp4 to mp12...but here, we compare mp3 to mp4, you won't loose that much.
About frequency, I'm disagree...you can compare for exemple Intel Z2520, Z2560 and Z2580 equiped with PowerVR544...framerate increase nearly linearly with frequency on OpenGLES... You can even cross OS and find similar behavior with Apple A5 with PowerVR543 (nearly the same as 544).
If I remember monitoring session on Android 6, OpenGLES didn't use CPU that much on my old Helio X20 and mt6752...I can't verify nos as monitoring no longer works on newer Android versions.
I don't say my numbers are exact, I use the word "around", but I think they aren't far from reallity.
The interrogation may come from 12nm and thermal... I'm confident with G76 running at 720mhz A little less at 800Mhz...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there are not many people that have done the research or fully understand mobile SoC performance, much less even care about it. You buy a phone and whatever it happens to run well in the way of games, you end up playing. Not many people own enough handsets to compare performance so I doubt there will be much disappointment out there either.
MediaTek really can't help but use anemic GPUs. Even for their so-called "Gaming" SoC they're using a ~150 GFLOPs GPU. Is this even going to be substantially better than the 124 GFLOPs PowerVR in P90? I can't see that in the table, but I bet they're using 32bit LPDDR4 too.
First, I don't know where you find your 150GFlops... If you get G72's, it's absolutly false as G76 has twice the instructions per execution unit compare to G72...get the numbers from a G72mp4 is false, it's more like a G72mp8
Dont trust the obline gflops you find if we are counting Fmadds the Adreno 530 has 256 ALUs @ 710 mhz = 364 Gflops. And your right Compute isnt everything (if its texture, pixel or geometry bound) but newer workloads tend to be more compute bound so it will mean more as we continue going forward
He probably get the online one...I don't trust. What newer workloads are you talking about? AI? Even these ones...when Qualcomm uses Hexagon and Adreno, others prefer using dedicated NPU
On P60/P70 you've got a dual DSP Tensilica P6 On P90, Mediatek keeps dual DSP Tensilica P6 and adds their own-made inference engine...they multiply by 4 AI performances compare to P60.
I don't like benchmarks that much but : http://ai-benchmark.com/ranking.html Kirin 810 is the king of this chart. But P90 is very close to Snapdragon 855 on AI task...with a tiny GPU
Im sorry i thought you had put Adreno 540 there..my bad. The Adreno 530 had 256 ALUs with clock speeds ranging from 510 mhz - 653 mhz which would put compute at : 261 - 334 Gflops for the A530. Again my bad. The newer workloads I was referring to are newer graphics workloads ( ES 3.1, 3.2, Vulkan) but also AI
Old Mediatek mantra... Anyone remembers MTK X20 from back of the days & when put up against let's say Snapdragon 650? Things obviously didn't change much. While ARM did improve both efficiency & performance of its MALI GPU's Qualcomm did less so for Adreno but Adreno is still in a lead at least against G76 & considerably so regarding performance per W. Mediatek continues to clock GPU core's considerably high, has a manufacturing proces disadvantages compared to the competitors QC S730 or HiSilicon Kirin 810. It won't be killer of either of them, me by a killer of S675 at it's best. Kirin 810 remains the best effort & certainly most advanced one in the mid range SoC space but even so it's not exactly a budget gaming oriented SoC, that crown for a moment be remains in the hands of S845.
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FloconDeNeige - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
G76MP4? And this is being marketed for gamers? I know Mediatek is a value company, but this seems very low considering it is Mali (not reputed for good performance).Difficult for manufacturers to put this chip in phones which would be advertised for their gaming performance without risking disappointing their customers IMO.
Plumplum - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
Hi,I calculate something...
As ARM double the number of lanes between G72 and G76, G76 is at least twice better
If you take GFxBench Manhattan 3.0 test, you will get :
20 fps on Helio P60 (1920x1080) with Mali G72mp3 800mhz
On G90 with G76mp4 720mhz, you can expect around :
20x4x2/3x720/800=48fps
On Snapdragon 730, you get 38fps on this test...
As Qualcomm say their 730G is 25% better than 730, you can expect around...48fps
What is sad is that Mediatek keeps 12nm process...even if a 720mhz GPU may be stable
FloconDeNeige - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
That's not how that works.Firstly, with the doubling the quad size in the G76 compared to the G72, the theoetical bump in performance is not at least twice better, but exactly twice as good (from the article in Anandtech about it, the scaling is supposed to be very good, so let's say ~2).
Secondly you cannot compute the performance like that, no GPU scales linearly with execution units and frequency. There are many other considerations, such as memory system, power/thermal envelope, variations from arch to arch, CPU...
For example, the Exynos 9820 in the S10 get about 102fps in Manhattan 3.0 even though it has triple the quads, and about the same frequency (with your computation, it should have reached around 140fps).
Plumplum - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
I think memory won't limit G90 as it is 2x16bits lpddr4x 2133mhz...I think even 730G with slower memory won't be limited
We're already agree to say G76 is twice better than G72...
We're agree too on execution units...when you compare mp4 to mp12...but here, we compare mp3 to mp4, you won't loose that much.
About frequency, I'm disagree...you can compare for exemple Intel Z2520, Z2560 and Z2580 equiped with PowerVR544...framerate increase nearly linearly with frequency on OpenGLES...
You can even cross OS and find similar behavior with Apple A5 with PowerVR543 (nearly the same as 544).
If I remember monitoring session on Android 6, OpenGLES didn't use CPU that much on my old Helio X20 and mt6752...I can't verify nos as monitoring no longer works on newer Android versions.
I don't say my numbers are exact, I use the word "around", but I think they aren't far from reallity.
The interrogation may come from 12nm and thermal...
I'm confident with G76 running at 720mhz
A little less at 800Mhz...
Plus I'm agree with PeachNCream
PeachNCream - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there are not many people that have done the research or fully understand mobile SoC performance, much less even care about it. You buy a phone and whatever it happens to run well in the way of games, you end up playing. Not many people own enough handsets to compare performance so I doubt there will be much disappointment out there either.regsEx - Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - link
Yeah, MediaTek keep stepping on same rakes again and again.ToTTenTranz - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
MediaTek really can't help but use anemic GPUs. Even for their so-called "Gaming" SoC they're using a ~150 GFLOPs GPU. Is this even going to be substantially better than the 124 GFLOPs PowerVR in P90?I can't see that in the table, but I bet they're using 32bit LPDDR4 too.
Why not just call this P95 or P100?
Plumplum - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
First, I don't know where you find your 150GFlops...If you get G72's, it's absolutly false as G76 has twice the instructions per execution unit compare to G72...get the numbers from a G72mp4 is false, it's more like a G72mp8
Second, GFlops means nothing when you compare Mali to Adreno. One exemple :
https://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?benchmark=gfx50&a...
MaliT880mp12 and Adreno 530 gets close framerate on many tests.
MaliT880mp12 : 265GFlops
Adreno 530 : 498GFlops
My advice : forget GFlops
Wardrive86 - Tuesday, July 30, 2019 - link
Dont trust the obline gflops you find if we are counting Fmadds the Adreno 530 has 256 ALUs @ 710 mhz = 364 Gflops. And your right Compute isnt everything (if its texture, pixel or geometry bound) but newer workloads tend to be more compute bound so it will mean more as we continue going forwardPlumplum - Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - link
He probably get the online one...I don't trust.What newer workloads are you talking about? AI?
Even these ones...when Qualcomm uses Hexagon and Adreno, others prefer using dedicated NPU
ZolaIII - Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - link
Which is (dedicated NPU) still in the most cases just a fancy name for a DSP adjusted for NPU tasks in this particular case up to date Tensilica one.Plumplum - Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - link
On P60/P70 you've got a dual DSP Tensilica P6On P90, Mediatek keeps dual DSP Tensilica P6 and adds their own-made inference engine...they multiply by 4 AI performances compare to P60.
I don't like benchmarks that much but :
http://ai-benchmark.com/ranking.html
Kirin 810 is the king of this chart.
But P90 is very close to Snapdragon 855 on AI task...with a tiny GPU
Wardrive86 - Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - link
Im sorry i thought you had put Adreno 540 there..my bad. The Adreno 530 had 256 ALUs with clock speeds ranging from 510 mhz - 653 mhz which would put compute at : 261 - 334 Gflops for the A530. Again my bad. The newer workloads I was referring to are newer graphics workloads ( ES 3.1, 3.2, Vulkan) but also AIZolaIII - Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - link
Old Mediatek mantra... Anyone remembers MTK X20 from back of the days & when put up against let's say Snapdragon 650? Things obviously didn't change much. While ARM did improve both efficiency & performance of its MALI GPU's Qualcomm did less so for Adreno but Adreno is still in a lead at least against G76 & considerably so regarding performance per W. Mediatek continues to clock GPU core's considerably high, has a manufacturing proces disadvantages compared to the competitors QC S730 or HiSilicon Kirin 810. It won't be killer of either of them, me by a killer of S675 at it's best. Kirin 810 remains the best effort & certainly most advanced one in the mid range SoC space but even so it's not exactly a budget gaming oriented SoC, that crown for a moment be remains in the hands of S845.