AMD A8-3850 : An HTPC Perspective
by Ganesh T S on June 30, 2011 6:20 AM ESTPresent day consumers use their PCs for multimedia intensive tasks such as HD video playback. These HTPC tasks are not very power efficient when done using the x86 processor alone. Gamers have remained the main focus of the GPU developers. However, the GPU architecture (coupled with a dedicated video decoder on the same silicon) is quite useful for video playback and post processing also. This lightens the load on the x86 processor, and so, even consumers who rarely game opt to go for a discrete HTPC graphics card.
Intel used to integrate the GPU into the chipset till the GMA X4500. In Clarkdale, the integrated GPU became a part of the processor package itself, and eventually became a part of the main die in Sandy Bridge. The GMA X4500 and later models have a very efficient decoder, and renders a discrete HTPC graphics card redundant for most entry level users. AMD, unfortunately, had support for integrated graphics in only some of their chipset models. That is set to change today, as Lynx (the desktop version of the Llano) makes its way into the market. Ever since AMD acquired ATI, a processor with AMD's x86 CPU and ATI's GPU on the same die was hotly expected. The Lynx integrates a number of AMD Stars cores and also an updated Redwood class GPU (called Sumo) into the same die.
GPU Area in the Llano vs. GPU Area in Sandy Bridge (Die shots approximately to scale)
GPU support for basic HD video decoding and the 3D fad (Blu-rays) is provided by all the current platforms from Intel, AMD and NVIDIA. From an HTPC perspective, mainstream consumers have started feeling the need for good, flexible video post processing capabilities also. Discrete AMD GPUs are well respected in the HTPC community, and the Redwood class GPUs have been used to override the Clarkdale's IGP in many a setup. Can the Sumo wrestle the spot away from Intel HD3000 Graphics in HTPCs?
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just4U - Saturday, July 2, 2011 - link
I've always found AMD fans to be a little more reasonable then their Intel / Nvidia counterparts. Simple reason being AMD products don't normally hit home runs with enthusiasts (these days) so their not walking around puffing out their chests talking about their l33t products.Jaybus - Wednesday, July 6, 2011 - link
Nonsense. The principle fault that AT points out is that the drivers are half baked. That is certainly not AT's fault, nor is it an unfair assessment. The fact is, I take all of the reviews with a grain of salt, sinec it is impossible to properly review the platform with such bad drivers.anikhtos - Thursday, June 30, 2011 - link
well both amd and intel have seen the intergrate cpu - gpu thing complelty wrong.the e-350 made by amd is a right product a decent low power machine dedicated for htpc or for a system needed less wattage thus c-50 can come into paly when watt is into account.
liano!?!?!?! i3 with gpu
what a joke.
first you make the cpu-gpu compo to draw enought power to too much power thus needing a good cooling system thus passive cooling is no longer an option thus htpc is at question.
the compromise of the cpu-gpu perfomanse is leaving always someone complaining i need more cpu i need more gpu.
no indepentent upgrade available.
and sorry for the 100 watt tdp of the a8 there are tons better solutions even from amd side
athlonII x4 620e 45 watt or phenomII x4 915e at 65 watt leaving room for a discrete card as a 5570 which will kick any integrade gpu with blind fold.
as long you can not provide any decent cpu-gpu combo at least they could have focused at the tdp lowering the cpu and gpu cababilities for a 20-25 watt system. the integrate gpu should always remain at a minimum lets say playing blue ray or a little more. thus allowing to build a system cheper now and upgrading to a single discrete card later. (as we used to do with intergrate gpu on mobo i bught my new system with an intergrade gpu on modo and 6 months later i bought the gpu)
trying to make a killing combo is a wate of silicon. it wont work.
and thus liano is a fail product too much tdp too little at anything
ET - Friday, July 1, 2011 - link
What I'd like to see is a media PC with the mobile Llano. 35W is low enough, especially coupled with the low idle power draw (which even the 100W llano has). I think that an HTPC that's small but capable of some gaming (WoW and the like) would be an attractive machine.It would be interesting to do some undervolting and underclocking of a 100W Llano and see what kind of power draw and performance can be achieved. And remember that 65W desktop Llano is also planned to appear.
By the way, I don't think that Llano is a failed product. It may not be an enthusiast product, but it's a good product for OEM's. I also think that once people will start tweaking it they'll find it a good product for their HTPC needs, and it could get a following amongst enthusiasts.
Targon - Tuesday, July 5, 2011 - link
The joke is on you then, because you have missed the whole point of WHY these types of products are even offered. How many mainstream consumers have ever opened their computer case to even add more RAM? It's a fairly low percentage of the overall market that is concerned with the exact amount of power required here or there. Many also don't care about battery life since they will be on a desktop system, NOT a laptop, and many with laptops leave them plugged in all the time anyway.Now, the old system with a CPU and graphics integrated on the motherboard. If you measure the total power draw on the old systems compared to Llano, you are looking at the same or less power draw HERE, yet with much better graphics power. Can you compare a Radeon 4200 integrated video based machine to Llano and say that the older generation is better in any way?
Llano is a first generation Fusion part, and if you go out and buy one of these for $400 in a computer tower, can you REALLY complain about what you get? It will be a much better machine than any i3 based machine at that price point, so why do you have a problem with that?
garagisti - Thursday, June 30, 2011 - link
Dear Ganesh,You're so quick to complain about the shortcomings of the Llano, which to be fair are there. However, i failed to see you mention 24-bit hd audio bit-streaming through HDMI on the Llano. Oh, does Intel support that? Nope, there is no mention of that? Yes, you did mention that you will test audio solutions later. But why not publish this review a little later, more complete, where you could also speak about shortcomings of an Intel solution. Or, is that a no-no at Intel-tech, sorry, old habit, Anandtech.
In short, my issue is with you guys siding up with one team so much, always... it's getting old. Anandtech i used to read some years ago, was more thorough than this, and dare i say, more balanced in concluding. I mean would it really kill you to say that Llano makes for a better HTPC solution than Intel's chippery? That is, as long as you're going with the igp.
ganeshts - Friday, July 1, 2011 - link
I don't find info anywhere that Intel doesn't support 24-bit HD audio bitstreaming. Any links to back up your claim? My testbed doesn't report the audio bitdepth (Onkyo 606), but you have piqued my interest, and I will definitely report the findings (if it doesn't bitstream) in my next HTPC review (if it uses SNB graphics)Technical writers have to deal with NDAs and launch dates. If I test thoroughly and report after a month or so, the coverage for the platform in the media dies down. We have to strike a balance between having a thorough review and one which touches upon most of the essential aspects at launch time. (You can see on the AVSForum Llano thread that users wanted a review as soon as the NDA lifted). You can also blame the half-baked nature of the BIOS and AMD drivers for us not being able to run all the tests before the NDA lift.
In any case, we will also be reviewing HTPC systems based on the Llano chips in the future. By that time drivers also get mature and we will be able to do a more thorough review (and note if any of the issues we mentioned in this review gets resolved)
We trust our readers to analyze the conclusions and make their own inference. Will I use the Llano in my own HTPC? No, because I have a 1080p60 camcorder whose videos play back perfectly on SNB and even AMD 6570 / GT 430 based systems. But, I can't speak for everyone. Our conclusions present the pros and cons, and unless a platform wins hands down, we don't say one thing is better than the other. If you observe, we didn't say that Intel's IGP is better for HTPCs, right?
garagisti - Friday, July 1, 2011 - link
Do you sincerely believe it is a tie? From HTPC perspective... HQV gives the picture quality test to Llano... HD Audio support is something i'd think one would investigate into, as it is a HTPC review.This is where the rub is... Llano is so many things to so many people, and reviewers have may be a responsibility of educating people. It allows you to use it for HTPC purposes, also rudimentary gaming at 720p, which i3 doesn't do well, and it doesn't do DX11 at all. Imagine a budget buyer, back in India (psst, i'm an Indian too), this piece of hardware must be like a wet dream. I know i had to damned upgrade my system when HD first arrived on the scene, and i didn't want to watch anything but HD. DVD's weren't good enough anymore really, they haven't been for a long time. You know, i bought a C2D 6750, upgrading from an AMD 3000+ but that wasn't good enough for HD playback. System played games fine on low-medium coupled with a 7600 but couldn't play media. On the other hand, there are a lot of people i know, who could have used a better graphic part, saving may be money on cpu-mobo. Now this is where you are supposed to be an educator and may be guide people.
Consider this, a lot of people around the world will only have one system, so there is your guidance as a reviewer with respect to that is very very crucial.
Regenweald - Friday, July 1, 2011 - link
What you want will never happen. Anywhere that Intel looks bad is: "not a part of the test bench" that's why in the HQV testing, Llano doesn't score higer, no, Intel has caught up to the competition. Um, go intel ?ganeshts - Friday, July 1, 2011 - link
From 133 to 173 is a much bigger jump for the SNB from the Clarkdale compared to the ~169 to ~184 achieved by the 6550D (compared to the 5570).So, who is catching up now?
I don't think I can even count the number of instances in the review where I have said that the Llano surpasses the SNB in terms of video post processing quality.
Actually, you guys should take a look at our Intel based system reviews. We are equally, if not more, scathing on the Intel's GPU team for not catering to the HTPC enthusiasts' requests.